How to Build Real Confidence

Anita Brick (00:07):

Hi, this is Anita Brick and welcome to Career Cast at Chicago Booth to help you advance in your career Today, we're delighted. Well, I would say a bit more than delighted to be speaking with Christie Garcia. She is an ego management expert and founder of Mindful Choice. She spent a decade in corporate healthcare. Witnessing managers struggle to transition from personal success to effective leadership, which is a really big deal. Her mission is to reintroduce the human element into leadership and drive lasting positive impact. Her work revolves around what we're going to talk about today, ego management and your wonderful book, your Ego is showing. The ego is subconscious. It is around almost all the time and influences our behaviors and our relationships a lot. So let's start off with a student who asked a question, which I thought was a really good one. He said, I understand that ego can be a source of empowerment or self-sabotage. I find it difficult to understand the difference when I'm in the middle of a challenging situation. What are a few clues that I could use to help me be more informed?

Christina Garcia (01:16):

That is such a great question because the reality is our ego can serve us and it can hurt us. When we are in those naturally stressful situations, especially ambitious people, they're moving fast, they're thinking fast, they're acting fast. And when we can slow down, that's when we can really check ourself to just say, is this my best self? Is this my ego taking charge? The biggest giveaway when our ego is present, one, we're not even conscious enough to say, is our ego present? Right? You're just doing, you're just acting. You're just reacting. And so when you can just stop and check in with yourself, breathe, take a moment, slow down. The ego thinks the faster you move, the more productive you are. The quicker you talk, the more intelligent you are. The quicker you do this, the better you are. And the reality is you are better when you slow down.

(02:05):

Take a breath and really make sure that what you're going to say is intentional. What's the impact you're trying to create? What is the action you're trying to do? What is the outcome you really want? And when you just ask yourself those simple questions with a quick pause, you're going to act and say something different than if you were just to unconsciously react. Now the reality too is when you unconsciously react, it's not always bad. You're just reacting. You're doing your best, climbing the ladder and do all the great things because that's what ambition does. It's when you start to get into the years of needing to have a team starting a family collaboration. Are you a team player? Are you people that people want to be around and work with? Or are you just very ambitious and get to the finish line by yourself? So I think it's just checking yourself and really asking, am I doing this with intention and know why I'm doing it? Or am I just moving fast to check a box to get this thing done and maybe I'll win and maybe I won't, but there's no intention behind it. Does that make sense?

Anita Brick (02:59):

It totally does. Okay. You had a fall three stories. It almost seemed like you didn't miss a beat and it almost felt like you were a bit indifferent to what was going on. When did you realize that your ego is in control and not necessarily doing a great job?

Christina Garcia (03:17):

I got the chills when I read this question. I don't really think about this too often. Looking back at the situation, it's absolutely crazy how our ego works. I mean, I was in the emergency room saying, I got to go. I got a party to get to. Everybody's looking at me like I've completely lost my mind. But that's how my controller protector ego works. It doesn't stop to deal with that emotional part of life. This was a big deal. I could have got injured. I checked myself, I'm good. And so it took me about probably two weeks before I even realized there was an emotional attachment to what happened. And then I didn't have the ego language and awareness at that time. This was kind of new for me. I was pretty taken aback when I called the most expensive cry with my coach two weeks after my fall.

(04:01):

And it took me a while to even answer her question, how are you? Oh my gosh, you had a fall. This is crazy. And the more she asked me, I was like, I'm fine. And then she'd asked me again and she'd asked me again, and finally I just broke down. And I would tell you it was actually pretty scary. I've never emotionally had a meltdown like that because I didn't know how to. I moved so fast. Life was really good on paper. I was living my best life and I was on top of my business game at that time. I had great friends. I was traveling the world. I lived in an amazing apartment in San Francisco. Life was great until I had to stop. And then I realized about a month later that it wasn't full. It was good. And on paper it was successful.

(04:43):

And I could even say I was happy, but I wasn't fulfilled. And I learned that those are two different things. So I got really curious and started to learn more about the leadership circle that identifies these ego traits. I was already doing the work, but it really helped put words to what I was feeling and I was able to identify it in myself. And that was when I started to realize that my controller ego, it puts on a show, it puts on an image. Life is great. I don't slow down and sorry, when we don't slow down, we can't be honest with ourself, we can't check in with ourself. And that goes back to just being present, slowing down long enough to say, is this really what I want? Or does it just feel good? I'm getting rewarded. I'm getting the hits of life that are fulfilling me in that moment. But the long-term goals for me, I was 30 starting a family, buying a house, doing all these things that had more commitment behind it. I wasn't even thinking about that. But ironically, that was one of my biggest fears was not having a family, not finding that person, not having a home and just kind of being this gypsy spirit forever. I wasn't aligned with my purpose.

Anita Brick (05:47):

Got it. The thing that's interesting is that another MBA student believes that she might be the controller ego,

Christina Garcia (05:54):

And

Anita Brick (05:55):

She said that said, I'm scared to give up my control and ask for what I need. I'm concerned people will think less of me than where will I be? Please help.

Christina Garcia (06:05):

That is such a courageous question to ask, especially early in your career. We are trained from a very young age that we're supposed to be independent, we're supposed to be confident, we're supposed to take the world on by ourself. Individual contributions is how we get rewarded and how we get praised. And then there's a point in life where that's really not true anymore and no one teaches us that the truth and the lie, the lie is not asking for help is probably the weakest thing we can do. Or sorry, the lie is that's strong, right? Not asking for help is strong. You're independent. You don't need anybody. I was a strong tough girl too. And the truth is, we may not need anybody, but our soul wants somebody. Our soul wants help, our soul needs help. And the truth is we can take on the world by ourself, but it's not sustainable.

(06:53):

It's not long-term success and you will crash and you will burn. And so being able to catch yourself and learn tools before you get to that point, that's where people respect you as a leader. People want to work with you. If you think about the leaders that have impacted your life, I guarantee it's not the one that was independent and didn't give you any brains. It's not the one that didn't say you can't do it. I'm going to take this and they're going to micromanage you every step of the way. It's the ones that gave you the freedom. It's the ones that believed in you. It's the ones that passed off the big projects even if you weren't ready. And as a leader, that's really where the controller has to let go. You have to trust other people are just as capable as you and as a leader, it's your job to train them to be as capable as you. So the fear isn't that you have to let go. The fear truly is do you trust yourself enough to be able to clean up a mess if you let go? Do you trust that people are capable enough to meet your expectations that are probably unrealistic? And do you trust yourself enough to teach people to do what they need to do to be successful? Teaching something you know how to do is a lot harder than doing it yourself.

Anita Brick (07:54):

True. And I guess that is a big question. If you are in your career where the stakes are high and you have to trust other people and there's risk involved, how do you mitigate that risk?

Christina Garcia (08:07):

Letting go isn't about walking away. I think a lot of times the ego says we're either all in or we're all out. And a lot of times when we delegate, we delegate ineffectively, we pass a project off, write it off as it's taken care of. We don't follow up, we don't continue to nurture or take care of the problem. We've put it in someone else's hands and we say, okay, it's all yours. That's not the kind of letting go. We're talking about when it's ego management, letting go with conscious effort and conscious intention means that you're still, you're holding your hand, you're walking together and you're saying, Hey, how can I support you? You're looking over the work in a non micromanagement way, but a collaborative way. You're having follow-up meetings that say, Hey, let's make sure we're doing this correctly, especially on high risk things.

(08:51):

If it's a low risk thing, I guarantee you're managing the two probably very similarly. And so it's learning what's really a high risk project that needs your eyes and needs some micromanagement involved. What part is low risk? You find comfort in doing because you've always done it and your ego has told you you're important. If you keep this value, you're important. If you make sure that you're the only one that can do this work, that's a lot of times why we don't give up things is because our ego tells us, well, if they know more than you, they'll take your job. You are a fraud. You don't deserve this position. And none of that is really true. As a leader, you want to actually have a team that is way smarter than you. Your job is to lead them. Your job is to empower them. Your job is to grow them so that you have a lot of people with a lot of wisdom that's moving the whole ship forward a lot faster than your individual wisdom can do ever by itself.

Anita Brick (09:44):

Good point. So what if you have a manager who is, and you can give us a little bit of a thumbnail of what this is. That is a protector ego. MB, A student said, I like my job, but my manager bullies us a lot. His behavior makes me want to leave the team and the company really do like my job. Any advice on how to work with a protector would be super helpful.

Christina Garcia (10:10):

First, I would say to the what's their part? If they're feeling bullied, what's their ego type? Are they a complainer? Are they a protector or they can controller because how we respond to protector energy is very dependent on the ego type that we have. Controllers tend to shut down with protectors. They see them as bullies. They see them as arrogant, too direct, too forceful, too mean, too aggressive, too passive, whatever their language is. A lot of times they'll call 'em a narcissist. That's kind of the compiler's response to a protector's energy. A controller usually can handle it more. They may not like it, but they can usually handle it because usually they're not butting heads as much because a protector just doesn't buy into the drama. First you have to take your part. Where are you taking whatever this manager is doing personally and making it more personal than it's two, the bully factor that comes with protector.

(10:59):

So things to know about a protector, they care deeply. Ironically, that's where all of our values live is in the protector. Our highest integrity lives in the protector. Most authentic confidence lives in the protector. Unfortunately, it's very black and white belief system within that protector. And so a lot of times if they're not aware of their ego, it comes across as very aggressive, very black and white, very negative, bringing that to their attention. So my advice would be trust that this manager can handle your truth. Now, if you take your emotion out and you take your personal attachment out of it and just address it as I feel like there is a part of you that doesn't want to invite me to be on your team or when you talk this way, it really shuts me down. It makes me not want to work with you, but I really know that you're a great boss and I love my job.

(11:47):

It's talking to the ego, but then talking to their best self, their best self. I shouldn't say just theirs. Everybody's best self can always hear when we're talking to it, even if the ego is present. And the reality is if one ego is present, there's several egos present. And so you have to be able to manage your ego in that moment to have a really big ego managed conversation that calls out someone that's else's ego without judgment. As a leader, being able to recognize these ego tactics, that's one of the things that this book really helps people recognize is once you take ownership of yours, it's much easier than have a conversation around someone else's because you have more empathy about it. Protectors, unfortunately, most of their aggression, most of their black and white belief system and their stubbornness comes from their own insecurity of having to prove themselves they're not good enough.

(12:34):

And when we can call out that wall that Fort Knox and help them see the boundaries they're putting up, help them see the unintentional impact they're creating, a lot of times they will start to manage their ego back. They're not aware of it. These are all unconscious, unintentional behaviors. And so being able to call out these tactics in a nonjudgmental way usually helps them hear it and see it. It doesn't work all the time, and unfortunately a lot of times they'll hear it, but they won't change it right off the bat. Or they'll get really defensive and aggressive because their biggest belief is I have to be right and that order to have worth and value. So if you tell me I'm doing something wrong, there's a lot of shame in that. It's hard for them to say, I'm sorry, 99.9% of the time, they are deeply sorry and deeply ashamed of the behavior they've had.

Anita Brick (13:18):

Okay, so with all of this ego, your ego, my ego, all the people involved, if that subconscious is running the show almost all the time, it can feel like we're playing a game, a kid's game of whack-a-mole. So you address it here and it pops up there. And how do you even manage that without becoming completely overwhelmed because it feels like it's always present. It's not stable. How do you manage it without getting completely overwhelmed?

Christina Garcia (13:51):

Yeah, I love this question about month three of my academy, this topic comes up most of the time we're just going through life. You don't even realize all the chatter and the noise. Once you start becoming aware of the ego, you hear it in your head. Most people come back to the second or third workshop saying, I am so loud. I talk all the time to myself. I have so many conversations that are crazy all day long. And that's what I love about ego management. We don't even know all the craziness that's wearing us out on a daily basis when we get home at the end of the day and it's like, oh, I didn't do anything today. I'm so overwhelmed. There was too much to do. There's never enough time. And we always have that more feeling at the end of the day and just total exhaustion.

(14:32):

Well, it's because we've literally been going in circles all day in our head. I won't lie to you. The first stage of ego management is kind of exhausting. You start to hear it all. The beautiful part about it, when people graduate the academy come month six, they have felt internal peace. And I know that word sounds so cliche and so fluffy, but it's a real thing. And when you learn how to get there, all that noise stops. The egos around you don't matter. You just get to be. You show up as your best self, you are intentional and you realize that you can't control any of that other stuff out there. All you can do is change your approach to see if it changes how other people show up without attachment, without judgment, and you get to be your best. And so it's actually very freeing when you start to really understand the egos and apply the ego management tactics to your world and not have to worry about anybody. We worry about.

Anita Brick (15:23):

Not to interrupt, but that sounds fabulous and completely idealistic. I know. How do we go from the 24 7? Well, maybe not 24 because hopefully we're sleeping, but how do we go from this noise that is so distracting and derailing? Give us a few things to think about that can help us get to at least a little bit in the process. Because the way it's set up and the way it's set up in the book is this is always present and it could take a long time. And in the meantime, how do you live in that chaos? I was struggling with reading the book like, okay, I get this,

Christina Garcia (16:01):

I'm worn out now.

Anita Brick (16:02):

And okay, now what do we do? And I don't want to confuse people who are listening, but where do you start?

Christina Garcia (16:09):

Yeah, great question. I mean step one deep and the first interaction I have with any client I work with is here's a survey. How self-aware are you? Most people think they're pretty self-aware,

Anita Brick (16:20):

Right?

Christina Garcia (16:21):

95% of people are not self-aware. Correct.

Anita Brick (16:23):

And

Christina Garcia (16:23):

I'm not talking, do you know what kind of salad you like? I'm talking real deep depth things of these unconscious mindsets, beliefs and behaviors that are running your show unconsciously 95% of the time. That's the stuff that we are deepening, and it does take a little time. Ego management is a life long journey. It follows you forever. And that's really what I mean by that. The ego is not going to leave you, but what it does is you start to reverse it. Right now we are in reactive mindset, we are in unconscious,

Anita Brick (16:52):

And I get all that. What is an action or what is a behavior or what is a practice to start even thinking? Because if you already think that you're very self-reflective, you already think that, you think deep and it's really the ego that is fueling that. How do you break out of it even a little bit to stop the noise for a moment to actually hear what's going on in you rather than this ego that is driving everything. We need to help people with that. Otherwise the ego is going to say, oh, you got this self-reflection, you got that. Just follow me. But we can't do that if we don't break that hold people keep spinning.

Christina Garcia (17:37):

You're right. And it goes back to self-reflection is not enough. These are unconscious habits and behaviors. You really have to seek feedback from other people because a lot of times you don't even realize what you're doing unintentionally. So it is a deep dive into self-awareness. It's managing that ego long enough and getting yourself present to really say, where can I improve? A lot of times that ego, it runs on, I must be the best, I must be right? And I must be liked. And if we aren't one of those things depending on our ego type, then we typically get defensive. We shut down, we start getting very disappointed in ourself. But the reality is none of us are the best all the time. None of us are right all the time. None of us are liked all the time. And really you shouldn't be. That is an ego lie. And so being able to stop and say, where can I be better?

Anita Brick (18:30):

So again, not to interrupt again, but to make this concrete. So now you go ask your manager or you go ask a friend or you ask someone, how do you create the safety?

Christina Garcia (18:44):

That

Anita Brick (18:44):

Person to actually tell you the truth?

Christina Garcia (18:48):

That's a hard thing as well. Again, you have to learn to manage that ego in real time to be able to say, Hey, this matters to me. I can't be better unless I know where I'm wrong. I can't be better unless I know where I can improve. And so you truly give people permission. There's actually going to be a survey, a questionnaire that people can download from my website that they can send out to their peers, but they can just write their own five or six questions. Where am I doing a great job? What's my communication style? Do you feel safe? Bringing feedback to me? You have permission to challenge my thoughts and my ideas. Asking those harder questions. People will give you the truth. Now the truth will hurt. And whether or not you create a space for people to give you more feedback, that's going to be up to how you manage your ego.

(19:33):

Because the ego's going to want to respond emotionally. It's going to want to defend itself. It's going to want to justify why you did what you did. And so being able to take that step back, walk away, have a moment, journal about it, where are your feelings, what's upsetting you? And then from there, that's when you can get into the belief systems. The academy that I run digs into all of that, it's six months because it does take time. So you start with self-awareness, but then self-awareness is just step one. You have to now own that part of it. Ownership of the good, bad, and the ugly. A lot of times our ego will either own our bad or it'll own our good. It doesn't like to own both. And so when we can learn to own both, that's when we start to gain that real authentic confidence.

(20:12):

That's when we can show up as our best self. Like yeah, I can mess up and be a jerk sometimes. I'm really sorry as a protector, being able to admit that we're sorry for unintentionally snapping at somebody or lashing out or getting emotional about a topic that didn't need an emotional response, that takes time to do because you have to truly trust that it's okay to have a dark side. Learning how to have a good side and a bad side. It takes about two or three months to get to that point. In the academy, I always tell people it is a journey. We go month one is self-awareness, and month two is kind of like, oh man, I kind of see it. I kind of don't. I see it more in other people. Month three is deep ownership. Holy moly, this is me. I see it loud and clear and they start to now shift.

(20:55):

Now we can start to collaborate differently, communicate differently. You really can't skip over the deep dark truth. The truth hurts, but the truth is where the power is. I always tell people, if you don't learn about your ego, your ego is showing no matter what. Perception is not truth, but it is reality. So if people are perceiving you to be a jerk, if people are perceiving you to be passive, if people are perceiving you as someone that's not making strong decisions, if people are perceiving you as someone who they can't count on or who lies to get what they want, that perception is truth in that other person's mind. You understand your ego and it's why it's doing these things now you can change that perception. You can make your reality match your intended impact. You can't do that without going into the dark yucky stuff first.

Anita Brick (21:45):

And you can't expect the other person to do the same. So if you're going to do this,

Christina Garcia (21:49):

Correct

Anita Brick (21:49):

Me if I'm wrong, you have to make that commitment and not expect it of the other person.

Christina Garcia (21:55):

100%. You can't change other people, but you can change their approach by changing your own approach, of course. So that's the beauty of ego management. Once you start to manage your own ego back, because you're going to start to realize that you unconsciously react to people in very different ways. Some people are very passive and shut down. Some people are very loud and aggressive and act out. Some people just go completely avoid it and walk away. And so knowing what your tactics are, you're going to start to see what your part of the situation is. Everybody takes a part of every situation, whether it's 1% or 99%, we all play a role. And when you can start to take ownership of your part, you can naturally start to manage the other egos in the room. And that goes back to the working with a protector manager.

(22:37):

When you start to own your part, are you taking their emails personal when really they're just direct? Oh, they're talking down. They didn't like me. They're really upset with me. I had a client just the other day, she's a controller, very ambitious. She got a new manager and he came in and he drove her, but he believed in her and he pushed her from that protector standpoint. But she had a compiler boss before that who just praised her and talked to her. And so we really had to teach her that he's not disciplining you, he's not mad at you, he's challenging you to step up in a bigger game because he knows you can handle it, and you've never had anybody do that. So it's very uncomfortable for her. And so recognizing, again, where are we taking things? Not the truth of someone's impact because they're turning the words through their own perception of the compiler, the controller or the protector.

Anita Brick (23:26):

Alright, so you get it and then something happens. It is disorienting and your momentum in this direction starts to slip. How do you keep it going if something knocks you down?

Christina Garcia (23:39):

What I love about this work is it's not fast. It's actually very slow, right? The whole idea is to slow down. You keep it going by staying intentional, by catching yourself, you're going to have bad days. Your ego's going to show up. My ego shows up every single day, and I've been doing this work for almost 20 years now. The ego is real, it's present and it's always going to be around. Where you can stay ahead of it is learning how to be very conscious, very present things that knock us down, big emotions, life changes, stress, overwhelm, exhaustion, burnout, things like that. But those are all ego tactics. And so when we start to take away fear and worry, all the things that are created, all the emotions that are created from past and future, we can bring ourself back. And so I always tell people, when you're doing ego management, you have to prepare that it's going to get the best of you sometimes because you're human.

(24:26):

None of us are perfect, and that's part of ego management is accepting these imperfections, owning them, and then moving on from them. So when you find yourself in those moments, which is going to happen more often than not until you get ahead of it, what happens in ego management, you start to manage it, it's going to feel really hard. This is a new muscle, but when you start getting 2, 3, 4 months into it, it's actually going to be more uncomfortable to be unconscious and reactive than it is to be conscious and intentional. That's the beauty of it. You have to retrain your brain to think intentionally, and once you do, it actually becomes addictive.

Anita Brick (24:59):

Totally agree. So we like to be very practical and actionable. So when you think about this, this is a big deal. It can take time. It is clearly a practice, not a one and done. But starting today, what are three things that listeners can do that they will feel a bit of progress and completion after doing it that will help them better manage their ego, get more of their time back, and I would think be happier.

Christina Garcia (25:32):

Yes, 100%. Step one, I would say write down everything on your list to your to-do list and then go through it and now prioritize it consciously and intentionally. And what I mean by that is you actually sit down and you look at it and you ask yourself what needs to be done right now? The ego wants everything done yesterday and it makes everything a priority. So if you can prioritize your list, you just bought yourself time today, so make your list, dump everything that'll take some of that stress and pressure off of today. Do that every day. Two, ask yourself every morning, where can I be intentional? Or where can I be 1% better? 1% better? This could be having a tough conversation that you have been putting off. This could be telling your family you love them every day because you don't do that because you're too busy.

(26:16):

This could be coming home for dinner two nights a week starting today. This could be delegating one thing off your list doesn't have to be big. It's just a task that you've now made a human part of your world a task instead of putting humans as the back burner. See, those are two things. And the third one, I would say get comfortable bailing brilliantly. At the end of every day, ask yourself, where could I have done better? And I don't mean done better from the ego's perspective, but where did I fail brilliantly? What did I try? What was the hard thing I did today? What lesson did I learn from it? That is where the ego eats us alive. We are so scared to death to fail as individuals and as humans that we don't try or we are so driven to win that we overlook all the things around us. And so being able to fail brilliantly, learn our lesson and grow from it, that's our wisdom. That's where great leaders then can teach, train and delegate effectively because they are able to teach not just what to do but what not to do in a how to way that allows people to learn from them instead of just a lecturing format because you became an expert because you stopped and reflected, what did I do well, what could I've done better? And what was the lesson learned? Got

Anita Brick (27:34):

It. I'll give you a fourth. Is there a fourth that you would want to share or a three is fine too?

Christina Garcia (27:39):

A fourth? Sure. Let's see. A fourth one. I would say pat yourself on the back and say, good job. Okay, celebrating life's wins. I think a lot of times our ego makes us think of big goals graduating the MBA program, but what did you do today to get to that graduation? I guarantee everybody is doing a lot of steps, little projects that get 'em to these big rewards. And so being able to really pat yourself on the back, that's how you wake up. Or you look yourself in the mirror before bed and get to say, today was a good day. I'm proud of myself. There's still a million things I have to do tomorrow, but today I did my best. And that's again, a way to build that authentic confidence. When we can show up and do our best, that is a win.

Anita Brick (28:18):

Totally agree. Because it's not just our win

Christina Garcia (28:22):

When

Anita Brick (28:22):

We do that, it ripples out and impacts others too. Just like what you're doing and the book that you wrote, but the work that you're doing is very important because we're not alone. We're not isolated. What we do has an impact, whether it's good or not so good. So thank you for the work that you're doing and continue to do

Christina Garcia (28:47):

Well. Thank you. You are getting the work out so you help people like us get our tools to the people who need them. So it is again, a village to change the world.

Anita Brick (28:58):

Totally agree. Totally agree. Well, Christie, thank you. Keep doing the work. And I am so glad that we had time to talk today. I learned a lot reading the book, and I think others will too. Thank you, Christie.

Christina Garcia (29:12):

Alright, Anita, thank you so much. It was a pleasure. I wish your audience the best of luck with their MBAs and all their future plans,

Anita Brick (29:19):

And there are alumni who might have 20, 30, 40 or more years of experience also listening in. So yeah, thank you for addressing people who are starting out and people who are in the middle of their career or even later in their career because what you're doing applies. So thanks again.

Christina Garcia (29:38):

Thank you. Have a great day.

Anita Brick (29:40):

And thank you all for listening. This is Anita Brick with Career Cast at Chicago Booth. Keep advancing.