From Loneliness to Belonging at Work

Anita Brick: Hi, this is Anita Brick. And welcome to CareerCast at Chicago Booth. To help you advance in your career. Today we have actually a bonus today. We have two extraordinary guests. We have Ryan Jenkins and Steven Van Cohen. They are authors of Connectable– wonderful book, by the way–How Leaders Can Move Teams from Isolated to All In and co-founders of lesslonely.com, the premier resource for addressing workplace loneliness. They have worked with individuals and organizations from small to global companies all over the place.

Thank you so much. I'm really excited that we're doing this. You know, this is a topic a lot of people don't talk about very much at all. And I'm glad that you wrote about it, and I'm glad that we're having this conversation today.

Ryan Jenkins: Thanks, Anita, for having us. We appreciate it.

Anita Brick: Okay, great. So let's jump in. Let's get one definition. Because the word belonging can mean a lot of different things. When I went for a visit to LinkedIn, belonging had other dimensions. So for our purposes today, if you could define briefly, what does it mean to have a sense of belonging at work?

Steven Van Cohen: Ryan, do you want to start with that one?

Ryan Jenkins: You know, this idea of belongingness is really defined as the human emotional need to be an accepted member of a group. And, you know, Steven and I like to further define it as this idea, this feeling of being seen, heard and valued at work. It really varies from diversity, equity, inclusion. Because if you think about diversity, it's having everyone invited to the meeting. Equity is having everyone contribute to the meeting agenda. Inclusion is everyone have a voice at the meeting. But then belonging is actually when everyone has a voice and that voice is heard in that meeting. So that's kind of a high overview or a good way to think about belonging.

Anita Brick: I think that's great. Was reading your book, and I was thinking that the team that I'm on is all about belonging, which is terrific.

Okay. So an alum asked this question. This question made me a little sad, actually. He said: “I am finding it difficult to create a sense of belonging in my team. Where do you suggest leaders start, especially if you are the person who is lonely and lacks a sense of belonging in your own organization?”

Steven Van Cohen: It is sad, Anita, but it's very common. The research that Ryan and I have done has uncovered that 72% of global employees feel lonely on a monthly basis, with 55% feel lonely on a weekly basis. So the person who asked that question is definitely not alone. You know, there are several strategies that Ryan and I talked about in the book. One of my favorites, though, is trading what we call high tech for high touch. Most of our days are spent sending emails or text messages, or IM. Very informal. If we want to create more of a sense of belonging, we have to take time for what's called high touch: old school phone calls where we're actually having a meaningful conversation, or getting on a zoom chat and seeing each other, read each other's nonverbals and get a sense of where that person's at and maybe how they're feeling. And trading high tech for high touch is one of the strategies that we would recommend.

Anita Brick: That's nice in principle, but where do you start if you're the one who's feeling lonely? It's fine if I'm not feeling lonely and Ryan is, then I could reach out to Ryan in one of those ways. And I'm all about that combo of the high touch and high tech. Where does this person start?

Ryan Jenkins: Let's redefine loneliness for folks, because guess what? It's a universal human condition. But loneliness is not the absence of people, it's the absence of connection.So if you're a leader inside an organization, one of the reasons why you might feel lonely, even if you're around other people, it can be very jarring thinking. I feel detached, I feel disconnected, but I'm surrounded by other people. It could mean that you're detached or disconnected from the work that you're doing or the mission of the organization.

So a good place to start oftentimes is to try to identify the beneficiaries of the work. Who are the specific people that are benefiting from your work, and that even leaders to the work that they're doing, you know, re-energize them, they can reengage with other folks.

The tricky thing about loneliness, it's like a snake that eats itself. When we're lonely, what we need to do is turn outward and find connections. But we often turn inward, and it makes it very difficult for us to overcome the loneliness cycle. And so it's also really important for folks on a team to understand the signifiers of loneliness, so that they can proactively be reaching out and connecting people and creating that sense of belonging.

Anita Brick: Okay, so an MBA students said and this is not an uncommon thing for students, for alumni, for others CareerCast. In many ways we work in a project-based world. Something like consulting, it's explicit, but in many places there is that. So an MBA student, as she said: “In my company, we work on project teams, often from different functions across the world. They usually last 3 to 6 months, then dissolve and new ones are formed. It's hard to create unity and collective support and belonging. What advice do you have for people who are doing project work, which is really hard to create those greater connections?”

Steven Van Cohen: Yeah, you know, so when it comes to project teams and the volatility of all of these different groups coming together in short periods of time, one of the big problems that I've seen over the career as a consultant, working with the clients that I have, they don't take time upfront. And because we don't take time at the beginning to build some trust and some understanding, the team feels a bit disconnected throughout the whole project.

One of the strategies would be to simply just prioritize taking 5 to 15 minutes at the beginning of a get together to go around the room and learn a bit about one another, do a couple of icebreakers, and then set some psychological safety norms that the group can all agree to to make sure everyone's participating. Everyone's really listening to one another, and we're creating a space where people can feel comfortable interacting.

Anita Brick: So here's something that I see a lot. Two related questions, both from students. The first one is: “I am finding that people want to connect, and yet they want it to be frictionless, which we know is impossible. We are going to at times rub each other the wrong way. So how can we train ourselves and by example, those around us to stay connected, especially when it's not easy? And maybe not all that fun?”

Ryan Jenkins: Yeah, we hear this a lot. The climate that we're currently in is that we want things fast. We want things like this person said, frictionless. I think we're always going to be seeking for that humanity, right? We want to save time. But we also need to be aware on the other side, if we're after convenience and not after connection, the well-being batteries that we're having to be depleted because we're not having those connections, we really have to keep reminding ourselves that we need to trade these opportunities of convenience for more connection. With these frictionless things that we're doing, and the more convenience that we're finding our hope, Steve and I’s hope, is to sound the alarm that as we pursue more convenience, that opens up more time and hopefully we can use that time more effectively and more importantly, pursue more connection.

Anita Brick: I know this all sounds great, but it doesn't seem very practical to me or very actionable to me. What you're saying I totally agree with you. That said, what I'm seeing is that people will come together with expectations that Stephen's going to help me, and it's not easy and it's not fun. So I just like, forget about him and I move on and I move on and I move on and I end up with no strong connections.

How do you help someone who's already in that mindset break the pattern in a practical, actionable way?

Steven Van Cohen: The first part is to understand that the seriousness of not leaning into the connection, even if it's friction filled. If we don't understand the cost associated, we're going to continue to do the easy things like send a text versus make a phone call. The seriousness of feeling lonely, especially on a regular basis, is quite alarming. In all honesty, and the reality is, if we're going to have deep, meaningful relationships, it's going to take effort.

Anita Brick: Oh, no question about that. I mean, Steven, no question about that. But I feel that what happens a lot of the time is that there is the understanding in the head, they understand we understand how important this is. You see all this fraying in society and we know at a macro level it's really important. But at an micro level, I want to meet someone who's going to help me get into XYZ company. And if they're not doing it, I kind of want to move on. Now, I know in my heart that I know I need to build relationships and not have this series of transactions, which end up pretty much nowhere.

So from your research, Steven and Ryan, how do you help people when they get frustrated so easily? And the technology actually exacerbates that? There's lots of research around that. How do you get them to get beyond that? And I think that the key thing is, how do I initiate the kind of relationship where the other person will pay attention?

I don't think we're getting there quite yet, but I know that having read the whole book, that you do get there. But how do you tell someone who's frustrated, I just want you to help me. So what do you do? I mean, in really micro terms, not big strategies, but in micro terms, what is something you can do so they get a little bit of that gratification. So they want to continue doing this.

Steven Van Cohen: Yeah. One of the biggest derailers between two people is distance. Meaning when two people don't really understand one another, the last belonging’s going to occur. And Abraham Lincoln had this great line that said, I don't like that man; I must get to know him better. And when two people can be really purposeful about shortening that distance by really getting on the same page and learning a bit more about one another as much as they can, that will ease some of the friction that might exist between those two individuals. So shortening that distance would be a quick micro strategy or focus someone can use.

Anita Brick: Okay, let's get even more practical than that. How do I do that? I've never met Ryan before, and now I'm having a conversation with him. I've looked at his, you know, LinkedIn profile. What can I do to really prepare so that Ryan knows that I have skin in the game?

Ryan Jenkins: Now more than ever, there's so many assets out there where you can get an idea of where someone went to school and their likes and dislikes and check out Instagram, figure out if they've got a family. So there's certain ways to create that connection as well. Put yourself in their shoes and understand what is it like to be that person, you know? What is it like in a day life at this person's XYZ company? And try to imagine what are some of the external factors that are currently happening that might be putting stress on the industry or that organization, and what might be top of mind? And how do you, you know, use that information and use that short exercise to then come up with a question or two that really hits home for that individual.

Anita Brick: I like that idea. Because I think what you said, the key that you mentioned, which I think is incredibly powerful, Ryan, is to do enough homework so that you can ask questions that are unique and actually meaningful to the person that you're meeting with. And when you do that, that demonstrates a level of investment. I love that idea. I think it's a really good idea. I think what you just said about the questions is quite brilliant. So thank you.

Ryan Jenkins: Thank you. Wonderful.

Anita Brick: All right. So let's move on a little bit. One of the things that an alum asked was: “I know that kindness is a wonderful antidote for loneliness and feeling disconnected from others. How do you suggest someone in a competitive business environment share kindness without it seeming like a gimmick or the latest H.R strategy?

Steven Van Cohen: So Robert Cialdini did some research in his persuasion science work when these two groups of negotiations that were happening. And the one group, they said, just get to work, start negotiating, get the best offer you can. And the other group they said take 15 minutes to build a better rapport and be friendly with one another, and then begin your negotiations. And the group that took the 15 minutes to build some rapport. Both parties ended up with better deals. Some of his research actually proves it's actually good from a business standpoint, because when we understand the other person or even have a little bit of a liking towards the other person, we're paying more attention or being more mindful of what we're doing and how it's impacting everyone.

Anita Brick: I love that idea. So an MBA student said: “I have multiple new people on my team, some I have not yet met in person and others I have seen. But when we're in the office, we wear masks and we stay in our offices. What are a few things I can do to build trust and demonstrate I value them when I've never met them.

Ryan Jenkins: When we think about it from the context of loneliness. So think about when is loneliness lessened. It's when attention is received. And we love to share with audiences, talking about the world's most valuable resource. When we first have audiences look at oil, which is obviously a valuable resource, and we look at the two largest oil companies in the US, and they've got a collective market cap of around 260 billion-ish. But then there's another company that's got $1 trillion market cap, and we put it up on the screen if we're in a, you know, virtual or a live audience with folks. And it's very drastic and people are saying, yeah, what is that other resource? And the company that we reveal, it's well, that's Meta aka Facebook. What do they do? Well, they don't mine oil, they mine attention, human attention. And it's a $1 trillion business. And so when we look at it from that context, I think it kind of opens your eyes and that, yes, human attention is extremely valuable. You know, we would argue it's one of the most valuable resources on the planet. So when you wield that well and you give that generously and undivided to another person, that's when loneliness is lessened. But that's also, I think, when trust can be built.

And I think it's so easy for leaders, but really all of us, because there's more on our plate than ever before, we're busier than ever before, and we know that busyness is a big derail when it comes to belonging, and it increases loneliness. If we could become more interruptible and really start using our attention well and being fully present with individuals, I think we can really start to see some of the needle move as it relates to building trust with folks that you've just met. We like to encourage leaders to be more interruptible, right? If something interrupts you during that day, and of course we're all busy, embrace that one interruption that day. Put your full, undivided attention to that other person and watch as loneliness lessens and belonging increases.

Anita Brick: How do we put a backstop on that? Because if you get a series of interruptions, then your whole day is derailed. How do you manage that to seem open and to also at the same time make sure you do get your work done?

Steven Van Cohen: Yeah. Tim Ferriss has a term he calls single-tasking, which is the opposite of multitasking. Single-tasking is you find times during the day where you are quote unquote offline. So you can dive in and do deep work. Because when you’re distracted all day, every day, it's really hard to make progress with some of the bigger things we have to do. So it's absolutely okay to find blocks of time and say, hey, from 12 to 1:30, every day that's my deep work time and phone on airplane mode and just dive in. You have to put guardrails in place, absolutely. But what tends to happen, to Ryan's point, people try to be uninterruptible and they try to focus so much time on getting the work done that oftentimes they negate the people who need them. We like to say that never wavering off tasks is for robots. We need to be beautifully human.

Anita Brick: Right. Do you have time for a couple more questions?

Ryan Jenkins: Yes.

Anita Brick: Okay, good. All right. So I want to ask each of you a question and then kind of a closing bringing everything together question. So Steven, how do you show your humanity and create an environment where others feel your attention?

Steven Van Cohen: I use a technique whenever I'm interacting with people called listening to unlock. So typically when we listen, we either listen to win. Meaning I'm paying attention to what you're saying so I could have ammo to further bolster my position or idea. Or we listen to fix, right, I'm only paying attention so I can figure out how to give you advice. But when you listen to unlock, that's all about really making sure that you are in the moment with that person and you want to understand fully whatever it is they're thinking and feeling. So I've made it a point, whenever I interact with the people I interact with, even if it's in short conversations at the coffee shop with the barista that I am really tuned in to what they have to say. And you can feel that. I feel like that has made a dent with making the other people around me feel seen.

Anita Brick: Okay, great. Ryan, can you top that?

Ryan Jenkins: I cannot top that. I can never top Steven.

Anita Brick: What is your approach?

Ryan Jenkins: Mine is, and I know that's going to stop people in their tracks and go, What how does that work? You’re trying to create belonging, why would you leave the group? What's been fun about writing this book and going on this journey for the last 2 or 3 years studying loneliness, I'm an introvert, Steven’s an extrovert. And so we've had really great dialogue, and we've tried to put both those perspectives in the book as well. But I like to say that I'm not antisocial, I'm just pro-solitude. This idea that aloneness can actually lessen loneliness. Again, if you think about loneliness, it's the absence of connection, not people. One of the primary connections we've got to make is with ourselves. When my heart and mind are tangled up in something, getting away and finding solitude so that I can really come back refreshed, whether that be to my family or clients or working with Steve, can then be more present because I feel connected with myself. So don't underestimate solitude when it comes to creating more belonging and lessening loneliness.

Anita Brick: I like that. So two very different points of view about it and both very powerful. And I think it takes courage to do both. It takes courage to be all in, Steven, as you said, with the other person, because they get to see us too and that can be a little scary. And the solitude piece, I don't know, I'm an extrovert, so, the solitude is a little scary for me, but I think I do that through meditation. But I think I went experiment with both of those a bit more.

So just to have a little bit of–and I want us to be super practical and actionable with this answer. What advice would you give MBA students, alumni, and friends of Booth who are listening? What can they do to positively create belonging at work and in doing so, thrive professionally?

Steven Van Cohen: Ryan?

Ryan Jenkins: Steve, I’ll let you go first.

Anita Brick: That's good.

Steven Van Cohen: Of course, you put all this pressure on me to wow the listeners.

Anita Brick: And the bar is high, by the way.

Steven Van Cohen: And the bar is extremely high. I know Ryan's going to bring it around and close it out with a bang.

I would say my number one recommendation is to be intentional about making connection. In a world full of lots of noise–and this is what we talked about earlier, Anita. Right. We prefer to have frictionless experiences, but connection is something that does take intentionality. We have to carve out time to be able to actually have the conversations and share the laughs and share the tears and do what humans need to do with each other to feel like, wow, this person is really there for me. My thing would be intentionality and prioritizing making time for it.

Anita Brick: Okay, what's number two?

Ryan Jenkins: Number two, it's around awareness, right? If you talk to a therapist or a counselor, they would tell you that awareness is curative. Let the person be aware of what the issue is if we're going to overcome it. So the issue that we're trying to overcome is loneliness and we're trying to create more belonging, biggest thing is awareness. That's one of our goals is again destigmatize loneliness. It's not shameful. It's a signal. It's a biological cue that we belong together. And so folks, listening to this, you could check that box, right? This awareness has been gained.

And I also want to stress and encourage folks that this is not a soft topic. This is a significant topic in our brains. When we experience exclusion, it's the same part of the brain that lights up when we experience pain. If we are experiencing loneliness, if folks on your team and inside your organization are experiencing loneliness, it's as if they're showing up to work, if they're showing up for customers and clients, as if they're being punched in the gut by an invisible bully. And so this is why it's so important, first and foremost, to gain awareness and understand that this is a significant, a significant obstacle that we've got to get our hands around.

And that, for me, is the biggest thing, I think, because we're still not openly talking about loneliness. And I think this is the year that we finally, that loneliness removes the stranglehold that it has on the 72% of humanity that Steve mentioned. I think this is the year. So for me, it's just awareness. Keep at it. Keep having these open dialogue. Keep thinking about it for yourself. How does loneliness impact you and what are some specific things you can be doing to create more belonging? The first step that I encourage folks with is awareness.

Anita Brick: Okay, so we have two. Who's going to wrap us up and take us home?

Steven Van Cohen: Ryan, bring us home, buddy.

Ryan Jenkins: One of the stories that we love to share when it comes to belonging is Chris McCandless. They wrote a book about him called Into the Wild. And for those that don't know, he traveled from Atlanta, Georgia, all the way across the US into Alaska. He wanted to live off the land and just be on his own out in the wilderness in Alaska. He found what he thought he was looking for and he was able to be on his own. He was living off the land, but eventually he ingested something or got sick and wasn't able to find help. And he was in his last moments at his camp, as you can imagine, he's, you know, looking out on this Alaskan wilderness, it's just gorgeous. If you ever been to Alaska. And he penned in his journal, it was one of his final statements. He said, “Happiness is only real when shared.” And it's a great reminder to us all that together we belong. We're better together. And if we can create more belonging inside of organizations, that's going to spill out into the communities and it's going to create stronger families, stronger communities, ultimately stronger and healthier organizations.

Anita Brick: That's good. It's a great way to close and maybe what we can each do, three of us can do this and anyone listening. Reach out to someone you haven't spoken to in a while, in whatever form you want, and let them know why they are important to you. In any event, thank you for writing Connectable. Thank you for making the time today. I know you guys are super busy and I really appreciate it because this is such an important societal problem. Yes, it happens in the workplace, but it is a big, big issue and a big, big challenge. Which means, of course, that if we each do a little bit, we can have a pretty significant positive impact. So thanks again for doing the work and writing the book and making the time for us today.

Steven Van Cohen: Thank you Anita.

Ryan Jenkins: Thanks, Anita.

Anita Brick: And thank you all for listening. This is Anita Brick with CareerCast at Chicago Booth. Keep advancing.