Do You Have Executive Presence?

Anita Brick: Hi, this is Anita Brook, and welcome to CareerCast at Chicago Booth. To help you advance in your career. Today, we're delighted to be speaking with Granville Toogood. He has coached more than half the fortune 500 CEOs, built an international reputation as one of the foremost leaders in communication specialists, and he is the author of four bestselling books, including the groundbreaking industry benchmark The Articulate Executive, which is actually used as an official resource and textbook in more than 60 universities and 150 corporations. Granville, I know you prefer to be called granny. How are you this morning? And thank you for making the time to be with us.

Granville Toogood: Never better. And how are you? You sound terrific.

Anita Brick: I'm good. It's winter, but it's sunny outside. We had a lot of students and alumni reach out talking about executive presence, which is our topic today. And do you have it? So one of the evening students, and this will probably give us a good place to start. This question was I don't mean to sound naive, but what are 2 or 3 specifics of executive presence?

Granville Toogood: Nobody really knows how to define it. Jack Welch had a pretty good notion of what it was. Jack Welch, the former chairman of GE, because he used to say that the one thing that he looked for in all his senior people was just one thing, and that was an ability to walk into any room, anywhere, anytime, anywhere in the world and to be able to be comfortable with all the people there and to, if necessary, command the room.

Now that's executive presence. Now the components of executive presence are elusive. You know, you've really got to have some sense of competence if you're going to be able to pull it off. Otherwise, you're going to be trying to position yourself with some notion of what executive presence is. And you might wind up trying to act out a role which would not be great for credibility.

So rather than try to act out something that you think you ought to be, maybe you ought to fall back on the simple idea of just being able to have confidence. How do you get confidence? Well, I think the first thing you have to do to have confidence is to have some knowledge. And knowledge is hard to come by if you're starting off.

The second thing is you've got to have some experience. It sometimes takes years to create an executive presence, but you can learn this stuff. So learn it and practice it and get your confidence and you get your confidence through your experience. It's just another stage in life.

Anita Brick: It's kind of interesting. One of the weekend students that I recently asked my peers to give me feedback, and I was told that I needed to be more assertive. I was also told that I have the knowledge, but I need to change how I communicate. I think this is part of executive presence. My question is how do you maintain the balance between being assertive and not being rude?

Granville Toogood: There's a very real difference between being assertive and being arrogant. I think humility comes for a lot in business, and because you know a lot, it doesn't mean that you have to be perceived as arrogant. I think there are certain principles that apply across the board. If we have our knowledge, then the problem becomes, how do you turn that knowledge and do useful, actionable stuff to get people to either understand what you need them to understand or do what you want them to do?

But I would say to this person that, you know, if you just simply keep in mind that you don't want to bore anybody, design whatever you're doing in any conference room, in any conversation or presentation, so that you have just five components, five simple things that you can do. So the first thing is simply to have a strong start.

Don't get into a room with a bunch of people and start with a bunch of opening amenities and let them know that you're making a presentation. Have a central theme. Just one idea. Support that one idea with really good examples so that you have credibility. Speak conversationally in the sense that talk the way you talk normally and always end strongly. If you do these things, it should serve you very, very well. And it's not hard to do.

Anita Brick: You know, there were two questions highly related from two different executive MBA students. And one of them said, what do you think is the difference in terms of executive presence between Western and Eastern executives?

Granville Toogood: Well, it's a good question and it depends on individual experience. But my own experience tells me that the Asian, primarily the Chinese executives, really are inscrutable. They have a lot of patience, contrast with our Western American approach of impatience. They're willing to sit things out and write things up for an interminably long time so that things go their way.

I don't fault them for that. I just think it's a different culture. And, you know, I've been in meetings with some very senior Japanese executives running very big companies where I was the central person in the meeting on our side of the table and the person listening, the senior person appeared to fall asleep. I wasn't at all surprised because I wasn't so sure I was being that interesting, but I was assured by the people on either side of him that now he was actually profoundly involved with what I was saying.

He was simply contemplating at another level the import of what was going on at the table. So, I mean, that's a true story. And it happened a couple of times. It's not surprising that there's a great misunderstanding between these two cultures. The good news is that business gets done anyway.

Anita Brick: Okay, so along with that, I mean, it is about communication and eloquence. This other executive MBA student said, how big of a role is eloquence and how much does it matter to the executive presence, especially if your first language is not English and you're in the U.S.?

Granville Toogood: Eloquence can mean different things to different people. If you really want to make certain that you cross all cultural differences and that you are able to manage yourself anywhere, it's awfully important that you simply talk normally, you speak simply, and you don't make it your business to try to be eloquent, because if you try to do that, you will simply find yourself embarrassing yourself. So eloquence, particularly if English isn't your first language, may turn out to be more of a problem than a solution.

Anita Brick: It goes back to what you said earlier to be yourself, because that authenticity, I think, is a huge bridge to whether the audience is one on one, a small group or a large group.

Granville Toogood: Well said. Good point. You could be with three people in a row, but you can have a thousand people in a room. And the idea is that you're always just having a personal conversation, right? I've been in a lot of meetings where the most effective and the most memorable parts of the meeting were simply conversational and straightforward and had nothing to do with presentations, conversations, or do it every time.

And there's certain ways to achieve that conversation approach. I can remember going to endless meetings, and I was always impressed with one thing. For example, you have a new CEO coming in to take over from a CEO in a well known, let's say, mid cap or high cap company who is unknown. The analysts don't know this person.

Companies are doing well. Everybody knows the numbers. You don't hear after the meeting is over, the analyst talking to themselves and saying, what did you think about what he or she had to say? It's not that. It's, what did you think about him or her? It is the person that carries the day. It is not the presentation that carries the day.

So going back to your point, Anita, we want to have that authenticity, that honesty, that openness, that thing that makes us all human. That's how deals are made.

Anita Brick: Sometimes it's hard to feel authentic or allow oneself to feel authentic. If we're switching gears and there was an alum student who said, "I like the idea of your eight second drill ", what advice would you have for a career changer who needs to be compelling and persuasive as an unproven commodity?

Granville Toogood: The eight second drill is a good thing to keep in mind. Under any circumstances. If you're in business, you're going to find yourself in unpredictable situations where things happen, which could be treacherous. For example, you get cut off or you get interrupted, or they might not have time to hear everything you have to say. But what you have to say is important to that meeting.

So of course, the eight second drill is an important thing to keep in mind. Now the second drill is simply being able to say in a matter of anywhere from eight to 20s your entire presentation, if necessary. That requires what I call reversing the wave, which means that rather than build to an elegant conclusion which we often don't have time to do, you simply begin with the ending and then surf down the back of that wave and provide proof to back up your proposition.

I don't think we should discount the business value of the eight second drill. I think it's always valuable and it's always there as a handy piece of insurance in case things get off track or get derailed in some way that we can't predict in this situation. The career changer wanted to be able to know how to present herself to an audience that may not be receptive to an unproven commodity. So engage the mind, try to capture the mind of the audience, and to do that, it's what I call the power formula P for punch, O for one theme W for windows. Good examples, E for EER, R for retention, and a lot of ways to and strongly good advice.

Anita Brick: An alum said he's moving into a different environment. I've worked in corporate roles for the last 20 years and have done well. I recently accepted an offer in a well funded early stage company. The culture is much less structured than I'm used to. What advice would you have for me regarding how to modify my more structured communication style to one? It's appropriate for a startup to be able to drive vision and change.

Granville Toogood: I'd say to that person, be yourself. I wouldn't worry terribly about trying to pigeonhole yourself into one concept that you may have, which, by the way, might be an incorrect perception. I wouldn't do any of that. I would simply stick to the basics. Be yourself, speak conversationally, and come prepared so you can have the confidence to go into any meeting with the information, the knowledge.

I just don't think it's a complicated thing. If you worry about trying to change your style, you're going to probably do yourself more damage than good. Keep it simple. Just keep it simple and stay yourself.

Anita Brick: Here's a variation of that same theme. There is a student who's about to graduate and she said, I have had executive presence in technology roles. I seem to relate well to people at all levels within the IT function. Now I'm moving to a strategy consulting role and know that I need to refresh how I come across, especially to executive leadership, both inside the firm and at the client. What are a couple of things I should do to give myself a good start?

Granville Toogood: The answer is stick with the principles of good communication, of good articulation. Know your stuff. Go into the meeting with some confidence. And by the way, we haven't talked about eye contact. We're all human. It is a powerful business point to maintain eye contact as much as you can in the meeting, whether you're standing in front of that assembly or whether you are sitting at the table.

So eye contact counts for something, and it's psychologically important because we all respond to that. The truth is that it's very simple. Now, I'm sure that people hearing that answer are not going to think it's quite so simple, but it all comes down to the idea of simply appealing to human psychology. And all people want to do is go and do what you want them to do. But in order to do that, you've got to do these few things that you and I have been talking about.

Anita Brick: This next question is a challenge for a number of people. This is representative of both student and alumni questions around this. How can a person own the hearts of the audience in a very traditional environment, where you're supposed to leave your emotions at the door.

Granville Toogood: I think that's a misconception that is really not a valid proposition. I think that we are all, again, human beings, and you understand how people think. It's not terribly different from what you think. You know, you could talk about the tradition all you want, but what really gets people up and out of their seats and either rooting for you or volunteering to go out and get things done for you.

What makes the action happen is not the traditional droning presentation approach, which I assume this person is alluding to. No, it's not that at all. It's being able to tell stories, and we've all heard them that evoke an emotional response, even in business, even in the most structured business settings. That really does get things done and tells stories supporting the theme in such a way that they resonate.

And once you do that, you don't have to worry about the old way. Let's call it tradition, a way of doing things, because this slashes right across borders. What we're talking about, and it's available to everybody. And it's a misconception to think that you have to feel obliged culturally to do it any other way.

Anita Brick: If we go back to our core topic, which is executive presence, it sounds like I mean, I don't want to be too simplistic about it, but it sounds like it comes down to knowing who you are, of course, being competent, but the authenticity and the humility, it sounds like it's being a person as opposed to being someone that you're not, which raises all kinds of red flags for people.

Granville Toogood: Yeah, let's not try to act out a role. I think that would be an enormous mistake. And a lot of people feel obliged to do it because they don't know what else to do. But the answer is in yourself, and it's not surprising. So yes, Anita, the answer is to be yourself. Know your stuff. Be able to walk into any room anywhere and talk about your stuff.

Look people in the eye. And while we're on the subject, I would throw in one little quirky thing, which sounds odd and it is odd, but it's worth mentioning because it seems to work if you raise your head, your chin up an inch or so in every conversation, and you maintain an eye contact, that tiny little psychological thing seems to go a long way to signaling some kind of a parity between the person doing the talking and the person doing the listening. So if you find yourself a junior person, try to tip your head up just a little bit when you're speaking to the senior person. And that may surprise you, what may come of that, providing you also follow some of the other guidelines we've thrown in along the way here.

Anita Brick: Okay.

Granville Toogood: Good, good. I'd say it's a strange little thing, but it's fun to think about. And it's well, you know, we have to figure out what are the things that help us both discover and create this consistent, compelling executive presence wherever we are.

Anita Brick: Just to kind of wrap up, I'm very curious if you are going to boil it down to three things. What are three things that a person can begin doing today to take the next step to discover and create a compelling executive presence?

Granville Toogood: Well, first I would make sure that you are true to yourself. Don't try to conjure up an image and then add the image because you will come across as inauthentic. Secondly, I would certainly make it your business to know your business. Take it very seriously, understand everything about your business, understand everything that you're expected to know, and whatever communication is upcoming.

Thirdly, if you are going to do this for your entire life long, which I hope you do, you can always count on the principles that are outlined in the Articulate Executive. There are paths that you can go down in there, guidelines that you can follow. So it can be a fun and very rewarding experience. And it's available to everybody. And I think it's a shame if you miss it.

Anita Brick: Agree I agree. Thank you so much. It is, as we've talked about at the very beginning, it's kind of elusive. And we don't often know that we display executive presence except by looking backwards or by other people telling us. So thank you for giving us some clues and some advice and some wisdom on this. And lots of good actions that we can put into place. So thank you very much for sharing your guidance and your wisdom.

Granville Toogood: Well, it was a pleasure. Always a pleasure. Thank you, Anita.

Anita Brick: Thank you very much. And thank you all for listening. This is Anita Brick with CareerCast at Chicago Booth. Keep on advancing.