Using Social Media To Accelerate Your Career

Anita Brick: Hi. This is Anita Brick. Welcome to CareerCast at Chicago Booth to help you advance in your career. Today we're delighted to be speaking with Michael Margolis. He is the president of GetStoried.com. He advises companies and individuals how to get others to believe in their story. Michael is a new venture coach and evaluator for the NYU Business Plan Competition, and he's worked for clients such as Ernst & Young, Marriott, NASA, and the global media company Omnicom.

He's also the author of Believe Me: A Storytelling Manifesto for Change Makers and Innovators. Michael very generously allowed us to download it for free at GetStoried.com. Michael, thank you. I know you are a super busy guy, and you're getting ready to go to South by Southwest, right?

Michael Margolis: It's coming up in just a couple of days.

Anita Brick: I know, it's pretty exciting. I know that this is your area. You love talking about story, and especially story online. As a start, how would you define, say, career advancement using social media?

Michael Margolis: I like to think a lot about, sort of, new language. There's so much buzz and hype about social media that it's easy to get drowned in the noise. And I think part of what we're missing is sort of some new mental models for thinking about how to use the stuff purposefully and mindfully. The first thing I would say, Anita, is social media is relationship technology.

Anita Brick: Oh, I like that.

Michael Margolis: It’s basically a platform that allows you to manage a whole nother order of magnitude of relationships in your life and in your career. It used to be, you could barely manage five people in your life. Now you can manage 500 people, 5,000 people. There's all sorts of things that come with that as well. There's still all the noise that we all are aware of and all the frustrations that come with it. But it's that relationship technology piece that excites me the most.

Anita Brick: Well, you know, it's interesting because one of the questions—and I think it's very telling, especially given what you just said—one of the evening MBA students asked, to what extent is social media useful if you're not looking for a new job?

Michael Margolis: It's ultimately a personal choice. Two years ago, I was in the midst of a divorce. I was broke. I was on the verge of personal bankruptcy. I had to give up my old business and basically start over from scratch. And in the course of two years, I became a self-published author, a podcaster, a journalist, and a professor at a business school.

Anita Brick: You've crafted a whole persona and image for yourself.

Michael Margolis: The story you tell about yourself really shapes how other people see you. The reason I shared part of that transformation for me in the last two years is in the context of your question, which is two years ago, I dilly-daddled on social media. I had accounts on LinkedIn and Facebook and Twitter, but I really didn't use them for much of anything.

And what I found was social media for me as I was going through that transition— I kind of joke with friends that to me it was like therapy, but only cheaper. What do you do with that? Well, what I mean by that is it was a way for me to actually not only feel connected to other people, but it was a way for me … It was like my R&D lab. I could constantly float new ideas out into the world and see how people responded to them. I could start to map my world of interests, right?

One of the things—this is a really simple thing—for anybody who's thinking about social media from a career standpoint, this is one of the first places to start with social media. I mean, of course, you know, go get your LinkedIn profile and there's all this stuff you can do for a job search. But if you're looking to just figure out, OK, how do I swim in these waters? How do I carve out a place for myself?

Start with this simple concept, which is social bookmarking, and let me explain that if I can, Anita. I'm a total polyglot for knowledge and information, and I used to subscribe to hundreds of email newsletters, and I used to just have this infusion of information that was constantly coming in to me from left and right, up and down. And I used to take a lot of great pride in this, like, oh man, I've got my thumb on the pulse of this really unique field and intersection.

I’d find these cool things. I would tag them in my email inbox. I would file them into a folder that was nested in a folder, nested in a folder, for them to die a lonely death because I rarely, if ever, would go back into those folders to look at what I tagged.

Anita Brick: What do you do differently today?

Michael Margolis: Now what you can do is you push it to your Twitter feed, or you post it on your Facebook page, or you get more sophisticated and you can start to create your own ecosystem on a Tumblr page, or Posterous or Delicious and all these various different things. Put the technology aside for a moment. The value of social bookmarking.

You're letting people know, hey, this is what I am thinking about. This is what I'm reading. This is what I'm paying attention to. That's a way to reinforce your credibility and knowledge. And also other people who are attracted to similar things will be attracted to you.

Anita Brick: It makes a lot of sense. How do you see this, though? If you're still subscribing to all of those things, how do you know what to include and push out there that will help you enhance your authority and credibility?

Michael Margolis: One of the things that I did early on, because I thought about this a lot, like especially around finding my voice on social media. And so at first, social bookmarking, what helped about that was I didn't have to start blogging. I didn't have to be really, like, smart, pithy, funny. You know, I always felt kind of more like the nerd than like the cool kid. Same thing online. So social bookmarking just allows me to share cool links. I really don't need to editorialize too much.

Anita Brick: If your goal is to really shape how people perceive you, and especially if you are trying to advance or make a career change, how do you modify just the pushing out with an evaluated pushing out?

Michael Margolis: There are sort of baby steps or stepping stones, right? The first step is to just start mapping your world.

Anita Brick: And what does that mean?

Michael Margolis: It's basically looking at what are the different streams of information that are coming into you, and what are the things that you think are most relevant and important to share back out? And there's very simple ways that you can push that information back out. But Twitter and Facebook are the perfect sandlot for the first stage of the game. And then as you get more sophisticated, you'll realize, well, OK, those platforms like Twitter and Facebook are fine and dandy.

But you know what? Let me actually start to create my own ecosystem, my own sandlot, you know, and that's where you can set up a blog and you can set up all sorts of other things. To your point, all right, if you want to get into the editorial side of it, because once you start doing that, you kind of get the hang of it.

So once your feet are wet in the water and you start to go, OK, I got these cool links. Maybe you first start by editorializing that one-sentence lead-in. What's going to get people to read this cool article? And you start to experiment. And one of the things that I did was I came up with three sort of golden guidelines for myself, and here's what they were.

Number one was everything I post for me needs to be provocative or inspiring. It needs to have an edge. So it's got to have that little extra umph for me. Number two is that everything I post, I try to be funny, ideally at the expense of myself, make people smile or laugh. And number three is I try to make people feel good. I rarely if ever post something that's really negative.

Anita Brick: It sounds like those three things are based on your own personal brand, and for someone else it could be the same three things. Or it could be three completely different things.

Michael Margolis: Yeah, you can come up with your own guidelines. What I'm talking about with these guidelines, though, is basically give yourself some criteria. And look, do I hit all three of those guidelines every single time? No, because let's be honest, I'm not that funny of a guy. This gives me something to live up to and it gives me some criteria if I'm ever kind of on the fence, or if I'm wondering, is this appropriate?

I go back to those three criteria. And those two criteria, by the way, give me permission to say whatever the heck I want. That's a very liberating thing too, as you start to experiment and find your voice through social media.

Anita Brick: I think you bring up a really good point. One of the questions that someone had posted was that they have some things that they had pushed out there three, four, or five years ago that's starting to come back to hurt them. There's a two-part question. Number one, how do you have maybe one of those criteria, say, all right, do I want this to be something that lives on?

And then secondly, if you have stuff to clean up, how do you go about cleaning up things that no longer suit you, that are out there?

Michael Margolis: The first part is I think it's really important for everybody to remember this is how I live, the very act of putting information on a computer. I assume there's a possibility it will be seen by the entire world, right? The moment I literally put it on my desktop, much less upload it somewhere, I keep that in the back of my mind.

Anita Brick: If there are some things to clean up, how do you go about doing that when it's already out there?

Michael Margolis: I mean it's a good question. So I mean, look, we all have our adventures of youth, and you know, if you've got a picture up on Facebook, yeah, maybe take down that picture. Just like you posted something up, most of the places where you've posted something, you usually can also take it down.

Anita Brick: Let's say you're not a millennial, you're not an X. Maybe you're even a baby boomer. So I mean, this call is global and it's also current students through alumni. So one of— actually, it was a weekend student, said, I'm a big user of social media more personally than professionally. If my goal is to go into strategy consulting, where do I tell my story? What's the best way for me to begin telling my story?

Michael Margolis: I have a bias on that topic, which is, I believe, the first and most important place to tell that story for any of us is our bio. And that bio is different than your CV or your resume. What's happened is the bio has become the shorthand, like literally the LinkedIn page, your Facebook profile, your Twitter bio, your “About Us” description.

If you have your own personal website, that's the first place that people go when they want to learn about you. And before you have a business meeting with somebody, they've Googled you. While you're sleeping tonight, somebody has probably pulled up your social media profile somewhere. So that bio becomes a window into how the world sees you and how you want to create an invitation into a relationship.

Anita Brick: So if someone has that two- or three-page CV and wants to restructure it into a bio, what are some things they can do to get started?

Michael Margolis: I've got a whole bunch of different principles on this. The first one that I speak to a lot is the concept of natural authority. So what's happening increasingly right now is character trumps credentials. Everybody has a degree from so-and-so place or, you know, has worked with XYZ organization. Those things are important. They still belong in your bio, but we have a tendency to lead with those.

And it becomes just the facts, and it's missing the story. What people want to know is, who are you really? What makes you tick? How do you see the world? What motivates you? What do you care about? And let me give you an example of it. One of the ways to think about this is superheroes. So superheroes, like your favorite, think of your favorite superhero, Batman, Wonder Woman, Superman.

They all have a backstory for how they came into their powers. OK, here's the thing that we forget about. You're not born a superhero. You're made a superhero through circumstances and the choices that you make. So what you want to look at is in your own backstory, what were the circumstances, the situations—whether those were in early childhood, whether those were at the beginning of your career—what were those situations that, you know, in storytelling terms, were like the inciting incidents that sent you on your quest that you are currently on?

When you have that sense of, I have such a clear sense of purpose, like I'm on a mission. You know, if you're an entrepreneur, you know, and I've coached a lot of entrepreneurs and, you know, if you're sitting down with an investor and you're trying to raise money, what that investor wants to know is that you're on a mission from God.

I'm being a bit dramatic here, but literally, think about it: when you have that kind of a story to tell, it's like the story of, look, this is who I was born to be.

Anita Brick: I get it. There's an alum who grew up in Africa during a very difficult time in her country. She saw massive amounts of food just rotting on the roads, just rotting. People were starving, and there was massive amounts of food rotting on the road. So now, as an adult, she went on, got a PhD, got an MBA, a PhD in like the food area, food science area, and is now developing a social venture back in her home country to actually help with distribution but also provide high-quality product, because of what happened when she was a child. Is that what you mean?

Michael Margolis: Absolutely. Look, it's your job to help people locate themselves in your story. It's your responsibility to do that. And by the way, this happens anytime you're at a dinner party or a networking event. This is the natural process that happens when you're talking with people. What are the questions that immediately come up in conversation?

Anita Brick: Oh, cool. But it seems like it's so difficult to do that online. It feels like if I have you sitting in a room, I'm going to find out about your story and you're going to find out about mine, because we have a dialogue, a real-time dialogue. With social media, I guess with IM-ing and tweeting, I mean, I guess you have a pseudo real-time dialogue, but it's not really that way.

So how do you bridge that gap that you and I would have at a dinner party where we get to know each other over something tasty? How do you bridge that in the virtual world?

Michael Margolis: I look at it as really a process of self-inventory. It's really about mapping this stuff out for yourself.

Anita Brick: I get that, I get it, you map it out one hand, but how do you get me—who may be halfway around the world—to notice you above all the noise? I'm on Twitter, and unless I use TweetDeck, I miss half the staff of the people that I am following because I follow so many people. Let's say I know my story, understand the backstory, merge the emotions—that thing that allows one human being to connect to another with those facts. But then how do you get noticed when it's not real time?

Michael Margolis: It's just like at a dinner party. You don't come storming into the room handing out business cards and fliers.

Anita Brick: Sure, but maybe you have eight, 10, 12 people at that dinner party. How do you capture that eight or 10 or 12 or 1,200 that you want to make sure you connect with? I mean, that's the piece that seems to be …

Michael Margolis: Just interact with them. I mean, it's the same sort of thing. I mean, you know, Twitter is a real-time platform. If there's somebody that you want to get to know better, actually spend time following their stream, send them a message right now, send them multiple messages. It can even be a simple little pink comment on their stuff. If you're going after some— let's say there's a big thought leader or big kahuna who's key in your industry that you want to develop a relationship with.

Maybe he or she came out with a new book. Write a review of the book, do things that are like shout-outs. That's like fan mail, but do it publicly. You know, if you're actually starting to get to know somebody like that, you know, ask them like in an email or in a conversation, hey, what can I do to support your work?

You'd be amazed how many really busy, successful people— It's usually people coming to them asking them for something instead of people offering them something with no strings attached.

Anita Brick: Well, that's a really good point, because then one of the questions that I sent you is from a current student, and the person wanting to know, how do I have that bio, how do I have that communication in a virtual space? Is it the old language from my old job? Is it the new language from my new job, or is it somewhere in between?

But if you're actually building relationships, we go back to what you said at the very, very beginning about how social media is really relationship technology. Then your bio is going to evolve as you learn more about yourself and about that audience. But in the meantime, you're building these relationships. Is that kind of what you're saying?

Michael Margolis: Yeah. So as we started off, social media is relationship technology. As you point out in this conversation, how many of us are that good at relationship?

Anita Brick: Oh, please. That's the hardest thing for us to do.

Michael Margolis: Exactly.

Anita Brick: Totally.

Michael Margolis: That's what we're struggling with. And by the way, this is what the world of business is struggling with. Why do you think there's this whole movement, whether it's corporate social responsibility, customer relationship management, sustainability, the humanization of brands—all of this stuff is this recognition that we've, like, forgotten how to be in relationship with each other.

Anita Brick: Right. And it's interesting because you do get to experiment in the virtual world. But at the same time, the fact that people have 500 links on LinkedIn doesn't mean that they have 500 relationships. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but what you're saying is go out there and help somebody else. You be the first person to step up and build a relationship without expecting anything in return. And usually when you do that, things do come back, but you can't go in expecting it.

Michael Margolis: Yeah, there's two things I think about that totally connect to what you just said, Anita. And the first is to recognize that leadership is a gift-giving exercise. You want to become a leader. It's not about you politicking and being voted into office. You become a leader in the simplest terms in any community by taking care of those around you.

If you take care of those around you, you'll become their de facto leader, if not actually. Then ultimately you'll be promoted and pushed out. People say, we want you to lead because you know how to take care of us. We somehow have sort of flipped that equation, sort of the order of that upside down. So many of us, you know, we seek leadership from an ego validation and power perspective instead of recognizing it's really about taking care of those around us.

Anita Brick: It's really interesting because the opportunity out there in the virtual world, in the social media world, is that there's so many more people with whom we could be in relationship with if we take that approach.

Michael Margolis: Absolutely.

Anita Brick: So it sounds like that you have to know who you are. I mean, this is true with everything, but you have to know who you are and what you want to say and go beyond the facts, because your facts and my facts, even if you and I are both completely brilliant, there'll be somebody out there with better facts.

But each of us, and everybody listening to this call, each of us has an opportunity to create a brilliant bio if we take the facts and we incorporate it with the emotional component. That backstory.

Michael Margolis: That’s exactly it. Because here's the other rude awakening of social media. And that is, we live in a world of infinite knowledge, absolutely infinite knowledge. So it's exactly what you just said, right? Like we're drowning in data. What we're looking for is to make sense and meaning of the data. And so what you want to be thinking about is, it's not so much about what you know, it's about who you are and telling a story that people can identify with as their own.

If people can see themselves in your story, your story becomes their story. And the need to persuade, sell, or convince them on anything disappears.

Anita Brick: What do you think makes a really, truly compelling, engaging story? Especially if we're putting it in not face to face, but really putting it in that virtual world?

Michael Margolis: You know, and again, I'm going to bring it back to the bio, because to me, the bio, it's this hologram that everything else kind of flows out of. If, to your point, you have to know who you are, writing your bio and really working on your bio is the perfect acid test for that process. Even though, as you said, so many of us are in reinvention or we're in between careers.

And so part of what we have to do is we have to reconcile the old story with the new story. Right? That's how much of the process— I mentioned the one concept, natural authority, in giving people a sense of that backstory of where you come from and what allows you to do what you do and why you see the world, how you see it.

The other part of that equation is to humanize yourself. Let people know what are the things that you do for the love of it.

Anita Brick: So is it kind of like you throw in a line in your bio the way you would maybe in an additional section on a resume? That's something a bit more personal, but it's a smaller portion of the bio—is that what you're talking about?

Michael Margolis: Absolutely. We're used to seeing even in the most formal of bios, those personal details come at the end where a person, you know, lists like their 12 degrees and five books that they've published, and then they're like, Mr. Johnson resides in New York City with his wife, Bertha, and three children and dog, Lucy.

Anita Brick: It's totally true.

Michael Margolis: OK, so now, you know, I tell people I'm left-handed, I'm color-blind, and I eat more chocolate than the average human.

Anita Brick: You include those details to the level that you feel comfortable.

Michael Margolis: Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. And again, you want to think about, look, all of the details that you share reveal some little part of yourself. But part of what you're trying to do again is what I said earlier. When you go to a networking event or a dinner party, right? There's the questions that immediately come up, which is, where are you from?

Where did you grow up? Where did you go to school? How do you spend your time? All of those questions that happen in real live conversation. They're basically fishing. We're trying to figure out, do I share something in common with this person? And if I share something in common with this person, right. What happens is there's a new level of trust that emerges.

I think of what happens when you meet somebody that grew up in the same small town that you did, or they studied the same, you know, studied anthropology like I did in university. It's like, oh, it's like a light bulb goes off. There are these mirror neurons that start firing, and then it's this awareness of this person.

A little part of them gets me, a little part of me gets them, and a relationship is formed. So you're trying to basically just facilitate that process online with your bio by sharing more entry points for connection.

Anita Brick: So where would you put your bio? So LinkedIn is one, Facebook is one. You can certainly have a short version of that on Twitter. For people who don't spend all their time online, what are some other areas of prioritization that you would include? Where else would you put it?

Michael Margolis: There's a thousand and one sort of spin-off platforms these days that are trying to help people manage this process. One of them is actually called About.Me, which is meant to be sort of an online landing page where you can have a short bio and then a link to all your various different social media outposts.

There's tons and tons of them. Frankly, my advice to people who are listening is it's really easy to like, get lost in the noise. Like there's a thousand and one different ways of self-publishing a website. You'll be a deer in the headlights. What's far more important is one, make sure you have a story worth telling.

When you have a story worth telling, then you'll be motivated. You'll be like, OK, I have something to share with the world. And then, when it comes to all of these different options of platforms and tools, just start somewhere. Most important thing is just get in the water and you'll start to figure out, over time, what's the stuff that really matters.

Anita Brick: Now, if you were going to ask yourself a couple of questions, either as an individual or an organization, to help craft the story in addition to the backstory, you know, understanding that in a broad sense, are there any more granular questions that you would ask for a client of yours, either an individual or an organization, to help facilitate the writing of that bio?

Michael Margolis: Here's the question that's in the back of your audience's mind; frankly, the question in the back of everybody's mind when they're faced with any marketing message that's directed their way. And I'm going to be a little crass here, but I really believe this is what's going on in our minds. Here's the question mark. Are you just trying to sell me, or do you believe in something? Want to change the world?

It's somewhat crass, but that really is the question that's pretty much in the back of all of our minds when people are coming at us with some offer, some pitch, some ask, whatever that thing is. The question back then for you is, what's the thing that you believe in that's larger than yourself?

What is that cause or that mission that you're devoted to? And you want to build that story around that concept, around that motivation, and help people to then connect to the power of that motivation.

Anita Brick: So that— actually that's really good, because that's true if I'm telling my story or if I'm telling my company story. So if I'm a new venture, I have to ask the same question. Because I need to be able to communicate that. And it is a really fine line whether I am pushing something at you or I'm sharing something with you.

A friend of mine—I asked him how he was so good at fundraising. He has a very large nonprofit that has gotten all kinds of awards because of the success that they've had. And what he said to me is, I never make a pitch. I always tell a story. Maybe that's exactly what you're saying. You never make the pitch, or your goal is to never make a pitch, but to always share your story, and you'll find people who agree with you and want to engage with you further—whether you are an individual or a company—and other people who won't, and you just keep looking for the people who do.

Michael Margolis: Yes, [...] has a cool way he talks about this, which is when you're telling a story, your goal is not to change people's minds. Your goal is to reinforce people's existing worldview and to remind them that they're right. We spend too much time trying to persuade, convince, you know, create buy-in to all of this stuff that's like us pushing at people.

And we don't feel that on the receiving end. But the real power is when you remind people of a story that may, on one level, be common sense, like the humanization of brands. Geez, we should take better care of each other as human beings. It's not a revolutionary concept, yet a lot of people out there are kind of acting like it is, but it's just a matter of reminding people of what really matters, what really counts.

And if you can talk about it with a fresh perspective or in a way that people go, God, that makes so much sense. I wish I could articulate it the way you just articulated it, but I so agree with that. That's your goal when you're telling the story. So for me, like, for instance, a lot of what I talk about, the power of storytelling, how I came to storytelling, was, you know, my own childhood and life, you know, I grew up in a family where my father's an inventor and my mother's an artist and teacher. So I grew up in this world full of infinite possibilities.

What happened for me, though, was an experience, time and time again, where I felt lost in translation, where I struggled to be seen and understood by other people as an innovator and change maker. As a social entrepreneur, early in my career, I had a bunch of early success, and then I also had my share of failure.

And again, it all came back to the same sort of core concept or question that I'm trying to answer for myself, which is how do you take anything that's new and different and translate it into accepted culture, into mainstream reality? And what I find is, as I share that story and that motivation with people, I find this is like the universal experience of change makers and innovators.

Anita Brick: It's good to know that there are people out there like you who are doing this, it seems like, in a really authentic way, because social media relationship technology, however we want to define it, is really only as good as the value that we ultimately bring. And it sounds like that's really what you're all about, which is great. Do you have time for one more question?

Michael Margolis: Yeah, sure.

Anita Brick: OK. So we talked about a lot of things. We talked about how the bio is sort of the core of any forays into social media, and a bio needs to certainly incorporate the facts of your life, but it needs to go way beyond that to incorporate the backstory, the things that make you human, the things that are not just your skills, but your passions and the other things, your talents, all of those things in a way that is really compelling, that will help you connect with the other person that shared experience with them, and then to go out and experiment.

And whether you go to a place that organizes everything, like About.Me, or if you just start by getting a better bio or a more compelling bio on LinkedIn, and then pushing out thoughts and ideas and also reaching out to others and helping them. Like if there's someone you want to get to know truly and authentically, see what you can do for them, whether it's writing a book, reviewing their book, or tweeting about something that they did—again, to build those relationships, as you said, really being a leader.

However, you define that by defining your leadership or any leadership as taking care of the people around you, because ultimately that will take care of you too. In addition to those things, are there any things that you would encourage someone who wants to up their presence—not just their presence, but their utility to others in the virtual world—anything that you would suggest that they do that we haven't already talked about?

Michael Margolis: The only thing that comes to mind, Anita, is just sort of the simple principle of just, just freaking do it. There's so many people who sit around with a million and one ideas afloat in their head and go, gosh, I could do this, or gosh, wouldn't it be great to do that? And the people that most of us admire and that we want to connect with on social media, it’s because they're doing it. They're building something.

So think about what it is that you can start to create. And it doesn't have to be perfect. You don't have to have all the answers, but just start doing something. And if you don't know where to start, start by thinking about what do you do for the love of it? There's a community for every topic imaginable, right?

Anita Brick: Isn’t that the truth?

Michael Margolis: The most important thing about this social media stuff is if it feels like work, if it feels like eating your spinach, guess what? You're not going to be eating much of it.

Anita Brick: You're right. You know, you're right. You're absolutely right.

Michael Margolis: How to make this a labor of love in whatever way. And you also have to set boundaries. You can't, you know, it's really easy to get sucked in and let social media overtake your life. I mean, you have to really think about how you want to engage with it in a way that's a net value contributor, in a way that enriches your life.

Anita Brick: And others’, too.

Michael Margolis: Exactly.

Anita Brick: Yeah, I got it. This is good. Your approach is very different than what a lot of people say to do, because I see and I read a lot about, you know, it's all about me. I'm all about that person. But I don't think that's very doable. And as you said, it's not a whole lot of fun.

Michael Margolis: We really need a new model and new way of thinking beyond how to sell yourself. I really believe that that whole school of thought, which is the predominant thinking in the world of personal branding, is a bunch of hoo-ha garbage, and it's not sustainable. I talk to so many people, and that characterization of being the obnoxious jerk, the ego pretentious person on social media—that often is one of the biggest resistance points to a lot of people I know who go, yeah, I don't want to become that person. It's like the waters are polluted. I don't even want to engage in this stream of stuff.

Anita Brick: And I think what you're telling us is you don't have to. You don't have to be that person, that you can actually create value and make a contribution that really goes beyond you. And I thank you for investing all this time with us today, because a lot of really good information, and I love the new model. I mean, it really is all about doing to contribute rather than doing with the expectation that you're going to do just enough so that you gain. I think it's a refreshing— and I think it's really the wave of the future. So thank you, Michael.

Michael Margolis: Oh you're welcome, Anita.

Anita Brick: Couple of things, Michael. You know, we appreciate the time and also appreciate you've got tons of really great information on your site. And you can even download a copy of your book Believe Me: A Storytelling Manifesto, at GetStoried.com. And thank you all for listening. This is Anita Brook with CareerCast at Chicago Booth. Keep advancing.