Tell a Compelling Career Transition Story and Change Your Life

Anita Brick: Hi, this is Anita Brick, and welcome to CareerCast at Chicago Booth to help you advance in your career. Today we're delighted to be speaking with Duncan Mathison. He coaches professionals across industries including finance, technology, telecom, biotech, retail, and entertainment. Previously to that, he spent 18 years as VP, managing director, and senior consultant at Drake Beam Morin, a global outplacement firm.\

He's an author of many publications, and his most recent book he coauthored with Martha Finney, and it is called Unlock the Hidden Job Market. In addition, he shares his insights and wisdom in a whole variety of places in the media, including The New York Times, MSNBC, and CNN. Welcome, Duncan. How are you today? I hear that your weather in San Diego is a lot better, perhaps, than our weather in Chicago today.

Duncan Mathison: I suppose that's true, if all you care about is sunshine.

Anita Brick: There you go. A little of that would be a good thing. I know I sent you the questions ahead of time. There were lots of interesting questions. And one I'd like to start out with, just to put our whole conversation in context, one of the evening students sent in a question: not sure what I want to do, how do I figure it out?

And certainly we have lots of tools. If someone is in that stage, they can go to the career website. There are self-assessment workshops coming up. You kind of have to know that before you can jump in and tell a story.

Duncan Mathison: You do. Because in essence, the story is where you connect the dots between what your target is, what you're looking for as a job, and what your background is. Literally, your story tries to demonstrate how everything in your career, or everything you've done so far, perfectly positions you for your next job. And of course, we know we do things that don't necessarily position us for the next job. That just simply means we don't include it in the story.

Knowing what your target is, it's just so essential to us. And there are really wonderful tools, and it sounds like your program there is just phenomenal in terms of helping people sort of walk through that process of figuring out, what do I want to do next? And I think people should know that they don't have to make a decision to decide what they're going to do for the rest of their lives right now, because people go through many different careers. Engage in the process, discover who you are, discover what your value is, and use the tools that are available to you. It's a really worthwhile journey.

Anita Brick: And I think your point, you know about the fact that you may have different careers at different points in your life. You may also have different targets at the same time. So you may have slightly different stories, but all stories have some key building blocks. What would you say those are?

Duncan Mathison: Yes, they do. I think most people's stories, frankly, are really bad. After hearing thousands of these so-called two-minute drills or whatever you want to call it, or personal commercials, I'm convinced that they're not bad because people's lives or careers are uninspiring. They're bad because it's difficult to tell your own story without sounding boring, boorish, or even half-baked.

So getting the story right is really an important step, not just in communicating well, but it also helps get your search right. What I always like to do is I like to see stories start with a hook. And link that hook to your career. So everyone's got an interesting twist. And it might be that maybe you grew up in a small town and learned the value of a good reputation as a hard worker, or being part of the community.

Or maybe you joined the Air Force, as one of my clients did, for a ticket to be the first in their family to go to college, and along the way learned the Air Force discipline of commitment and discipline to get a job right, because people's lives really could depend on you. So I like looking for that hook, and everyone's got one, and it's worth seeing what that is and linking it to your career objective.

I think the other building block that's essential is you need to highlight each segment of your experience or your education to answer two questions. The first: what did you learn? And the second is what makes you tick. And what makes you tick is about your interest and your values and your motivations. Because the real purpose of an interview, or any kind of discussion about this, is to give them a sense of not just what you know and what motivates you, but also how it links to the requirements of the job.

As an example, you might talk about your first supervision job and summarize it as, quote unquote, a time when I was given a strong foundation in team building, managing, measuring work, and performance management. And so what you've done is you've told not just that you held the job, but what you learned during that period. I think that's pretty essential.

And so it's a series of experiences that you've had that teaches or tells the listener what you know and what makes you tick. What's interesting about the “what makes it tick” piece is that it usually comes up between jobs. For this, I like to use third-party sources when you're doing a story, and an example of that might be I was an engineer and I worked on a series of projects, including managing a couple of teams.

My manager came to me one day and told me that they wanted to promote me into a manager role, because they saw that I could work well with cross-functional groups. And that transition piece actually tells a story about what motivates you and what people see in you as well. The other thing that I think is helpful is that these stories tend to end on kind of a dead note, particularly if you're out of work.

It's kind of like, man, now I'm out of work and looking for a job. And it's really like a downer. I like to always end these stories with a question. So as an example, you might do something like, you know, so my industry had a slump and the company was forced to restructure, and a lot of good people and their jobs were impacted. So now I'm looking for another position. So tell me more about the type of person you're looking for to fill this job.

So the idea of immediately moving to a question really helps the pace of the transition, helps the story move well. Does that make sense?

Anita Brick: Well, it does because in a sense now you've engaged the other person. Hopefully your stories engage them. But now you've actually asked them a question where you're beginning a dialogue.

Duncan Mathison: That's right. And one thing that people really worry about in these stories, I hear a lot, is that you're supposed to keep it to two minutes or a minute and a half, or 20 seconds or whatever, and people freak out. I mean, how do you do your whole life story in that period of time?

Anita Brick: Right.

Duncan Mathison: And the secret of that is what I tell my clients. I say the only yesterday that you talk about is really all about tomorrow. So only focus on the things in your sole focus that, frankly, should be only the aspects of the background that perfectly fit the next step in your career. So in essence, this effort of acting as if everything in your story is a buildup to what your next step is.

Sometimes that means it's worth structuring the story, not necessarily around your history, but maybe around job requirements. So if you know there are four factors that make somebody successful in your target job, you might start your story by saying, well, based on my research, there are four factors that I've heard that make someone successful in this career. And they'll go, OK.

And you rattle off the four factors. And for each one you say, well, I know it needs this, and so I've got my degree in such and such. I know it needs this, so—and you just literally structure it around that and you'll find that that'll really help tighten up your story. It's just another technique to use that sometimes is quite successful.

Anita Brick: OK. So how do you do that without sounding like a robot? You know, here are the four things that they said were key factors in qualifications. You just pull them out one by one. I mean, how do you finesse it a little bit so that it doesn't lose your style and personality, but you still get your message across and you have that structure, which I think is great?

Duncan Mathison: The first thing is avoid fancy and fluffy words. You're not a talking resume.

Anita Brick: Good point.

Duncan Mathison: A good technique is to make it more real. Explain to your listener how they might have experienced your work or the services or the products you’ve done. Give them something they can personally relate to. What I have noticed is that when people try to flip up their language a little bit, I think—an example of that is I had a finance guy who worked for a company that made nacelles.

Most people don't know what a nacelle is, but anybody who's flown in an airplane, who's looked out the window and seen an engine; the nacelle is a box or a cowling that goes around the engine.

Anita Brick: Oh, OK.

Duncan Mathison: So what he would do is he would say, you know, I worked for this company that made nacelles—you know, when you're on an airplane, you look out the window and you see the engine. That housing is what we manufactured, which was very expensive. We had very strict requirements in terms of its quality because people's lives depended on it.

What I learned was, how do you build very complex pieces of equipment and how to manage that from a financial perspective? That's the way he told that story. I think that's one thing you do. The other thing you can do when you're doing that approach where you walk through the qualifications, is you simply say, I understand that this position requires these qualifications, and you stop for a moment.

You say, these are the qualifications. Da da da da da da da da. Would you agree with that? You just simply ask them the question and they'll say, yeah, that's pretty much it. They said, well, let me give you a kind of a quick rundown. Maybe it'd be helpful to tell you a little bit about how what I've done might relate to that. Then you kind of walk through it real quickly.

Anita Brick: I like that because, again, you're not just stating it and saying, OK, I read the job posting and here's the things and here's how I qualify. And you might in the process, find out things that were not included in the job description that are also crucial for …

Duncan Mathison: That's right. Because what you're trying to do is you're trying to drive a dialogue.

Anita Brick: Yeah.

Duncan Mathison: I think there's a cautionary tale on this. And that is, if you don't know a lot about the job that you're interviewing for, make a short story. If you don't, you'll end up just talking and talking and talking and talking and you'll be completely irrelevant. If all you know is that the job requires a degree and management experience, your summary of who you are might simply be, well, I have a technical degree in engineering and I've had most of my career, my last 15 years has been in management and management functions, and sounds like that's kind of what you're looking for in a position. Tell me more about it. Rather than launching off on a story that you're not sure if it's going to hit or not.

Anita Brick: So create that dialogue. You mentioned engineering, and one of the evening students who sent you the question said that he's been looking for a job for about two and a half months, and he's been networking, but he's not really getting a lot of responses. He feels like his resume is good, but he feels like the barrier right now is that he has a master's degree in engineering.

He's working on his MBA, and he feels that some people may be thinking, oh, he's only going to be here for a short time and he's going to leave when he finishes his MBA. He does need to work. What would you suggest that he do, maybe to include in his story? Because he does have really good experience that will mitigate that risk that employers seem to be seeing.

Duncan Mathison: First thing is, congratulations for going back to school and making that happen. It sounds like he's got, certainly, plenty of education. And I think my biggest concern is that he may be relying on sort of the old passive response to job postings. What happens is when the economy contracts, people will apply for lower-level jobs. And the reality is they do intend to move on.

So there might be a grain of truth in the criticism that people get. One of the solutions is to really sharpen up your job search techniques. It's a different game out there now.

Anita Brick: He said he has been networking and he feels like he's done everything he can. But it sounds like doing the networking is not mitigating that risk. What are some things he could do when he's having these informational interviews or the—he's meeting people at events where they say, well, he might be worth the risk?

Duncan Mathison: Well, I think one of the things is that he should really target the right jobs as opposed to low. And then second thing, target the right organizations. An organization that is large enough, and has the capability of taking on his kind of talent, might be a better target than a small company where there's no future to it, because the reality is they might bring you on board and see the fact that you're going on for an MBA not as a negative, but as something for future payoff.

One of the ways you can deal with that in an interview situation is to be upfront about saying, I'm going back, I'm in the process of getting my MBA. I love the technical work, and I want to be with an organization that has a long-term prospect for career growth, because I don't want to jump around from job to job and from company to company.

And I'm making the assumption that if I do the technical aspects well, if I really perform great in the position that you're giving me, that as times evolve and as things change, you may choose to promote me in different kinds of roles and so forth, which would be great. But right now, my goal is that every day I show up, I give you an absolutely outstanding job.

Anita Brick: Well, let's—just because I think the other thing to add to that is that he could research. You could go to the career website on the Booth site and look at the employment reports and actually identify companies that hire MBAs for other roles. And then look at companies that do that and also hire engineers and project managers, because then it's aligning up with your recommendation.

Duncan Mathison: That's right. It also points to one of the big flaws that most people make in networking. And I'm glad you mentioned the research piece, because one thing that people mess up with networking is often look to their network to sort of, you know, pass my resume on if you hear of anything open—that kind of thing, or if you hear of any jobs. And if you do research to identify, say, the sweet spot of, say, I don't know, 80 companies that you think might be a good match.

Your network really should have that list. You should be giving them the list and saying, I've heard good things about these companies. I think they might be a good fit for me. And I know that they hire MBAs and they like the combination of technical degrees. I need to find people that know something about these companies, and maybe even some hiring managers. Who do you know that might know something?

And if you notice, I do the “who do you know who might know something?” I do that on purpose because it provides some wiggle room for your network contact. If they don't know, they don't have to make excuses, right. And if they do know, they'll say, well, wait a minute, I know something, but your goal is to get intelligence and get connections and get introductions to your target, to your target.

Don't rely just on the published job market. The hidden market really grows when the economy contracts. And so that's what you're looking for. So I know people network—often their network, they find it's not working for them. And it's usually because of the way they're handling it.

Anita Brick: It's very good advice. Leads us to another question, another evening student who said that, you know, he understands that it's a good idea to focus when you're doing a career search. And he's concerned that if he does that in this economy, it's going to leave him not in a very good place and he's not going to find a job.

And he said he's been struggling to put together both a short story, 30 seconds, to sell and then a longer one that focuses on his background. He's been in financial services. He wants to do consulting, he said. I'd be happy to do strategic management or project management. It sounds like he's opening things up a lot to me. There are two questions here.

Number one, how do you open things up and not get a really confused story? And how do you do it in a short form?

Duncan Mathison: Well, the first thing is to have a couple of different stories that you would customize to the audience you're talking with. The second thing is that if you are opening things up, it's OK to say, I've got my degree in this. I'm exploring three areas of interest. And you say area one, area two, area three, because I think my background might be a good match.

Then go to the company that I'm interested in and this is what I'm interested in doing. One of the things I urge you never to do is to rank your three priorities. Because when you say, this is my first choice, and then if I’m really stuck, I guess I'll settle for this. I mean, it's like, I want to hire you, you're going to settle for me.

That isn't going to play. So really treat it as I'm looking at three areas. For example, if you're looking at five areas, do some more homework and try to narrow it down to three because it's hard to manage all. And that's part of what networking is supposed to do. It's supposed to give you insight and a really in-depth understanding about what this job that you think you might be interested in is really about.

What's the day-to-day experience? And so really pay attention to that. You should become an expert at what makes somebody, not just some minimum qualifications to get into a job, but what makes somebody perform in the top 10 percent? The top 20 percent? What are those characteristics? Because that's what you should attach your background to. That's how your story should connect, because that's why somebody would want to hire you.

So those are the kinds of things that I think people should keep in mind. If it's too broad, you do need to do some work to narrow it down, but once you get it down to like three or so and open it up a little bit, just don’t do the priority thing, that's the thing that really gets people in trouble.

Anita Brick: Got it. Another student asked the question, how can a person craft a progressive career story in an environment where there are high barriers to entry? I work within the middle office of a large investment bank and would like to move to the front office. I realize this path is sought by many, and I would like to compete effectively with these people.

How can I get senior management to recognize my efforts and get a chance to make that career move, which I know would change my life?

Duncan Mathison: Well, first of all, I love this topic, and in the book I actually dedicate a whole chapter to it because this issue of changing careers, whether it's changing industries or changing roles or making the big breakthrough, it not only is great for leveraging a career, but it also—frankly, when the economy contracts, you may be forced out of your career.

You may have come out of an industry in financial services. There was an article in The New York Times this morning that just said that the number of jobs is so contracted that people really are going to be forced to look in different professions.

Anita Brick: But this guy wants to stay in investment banking, but wants to go from back office operations more to, or middle office operations, to the front. So he's going into an area where there are fewer jobs and he doesn't have the experience. So how would you suggest he craft his story?

Duncan Mathison: And I suggest that he has an even bigger challenge because he has the front office people with their biases and prejudices against the back office.

Anita Brick: Oh yeah. Absolutely.

Duncan Mathison: The trick to doing well is to do a gap analysis between your target job in the front office, and you literally—what you do is you become this expert in—not just the minimum qualifications, again, but really top 10 to 20 percent performers. And you ask yourself in their language, from their perspective, what are the factors that drive a top performer in the front office?

And then you lay that against your background, and you do this gap analysis. And there are four kinds of gaps. The first kind of gap is almost no gap. In other words, you look at it, you say, this is perfect, I do exactly, I have a knowledge exactly of what the front office person needs. You need to confirm whether that's true. So you check with them or you check with people who do the job to find out. I know this is that important. Is it relevant? Is that the language you use?

The second gap is what I call real gaps. And a real gap is an absolutely essential qualification. So for example, if you want to fly an airplane, you have to have a license to fly. And so you have to set about closing that gap. Whether—I don't care if it’s a training class, a certification, if there's a requirement, start that task. And just being involved in it can go a long way.

The second one is a perception gap. They perceive a difference, but there really isn't one. Often this is language related. So for example, if you're used to working with clients and they call them customers, don't call what you did working with clients, you worked with customers. Often you have to reframe what you did in language that they get or they understand.

And then the last gap. This is the bias of—what I call the negative bias gap. We hate those people in the back office. Why would we ever want to have them in our midst? You know, the last one is unfair. Frankly, it's inappropriate. And it is a deal killer. And so you have to deal with it. And there's a number of techniques to use on that. The best one is kind of a long story, but it's called “feel, felt, found,” where you acknowledge—most people, when they think about people in the middle office, they think about these kinds of qualities. Is that right?

And the person goes, yeah, that's right. And said, well, I agree with that to a certain degree. And what I have found is that I'm really anxious to move beyond that. I want to move into this other kind of a role because I don't want to be stuck in that spot. I want to move into the front office where I can do these kinds of things and exhibit these kinds of qualities that I have.

So you really have to tackle each one of those gaps and have a plan for each one. And when you do that, you'll see people's heads nodding and you'll see the connection, because what you want them to do is to believe and understand that if they take a chance on you, you're not just going to move in, you're going to be a top performer.

That's what your goal is: not just to break in, but to be the top performer.

Anita Brick: Oh, absolutely. Makes sense. So that's inside—so he hopefully already has some personal equity, some personal social capital inside the company. How is that different? Because there was another question, this time from a weekend student, who said, how could you convince an employer to hire a career changer rather than someone with industry experience in the current market?

So we just talked about, all right, you're already inside. And here are these things. What would be different or would it all be the same if you're coming from the outside wanting to break into both a new field and a new employer?

Duncan Mathison: Hiring somebody with the same industry experience might be a plus, but it could just as easily be a minus. And a real good example of that is if an industry is in the midst of a great deal of change, hiring somebody with experience, say, with your competitor or somebody else, you're just hiring the same old, same old.

And so many times, particularly when industries are in a lot of turmoil, they're willing to bet on somebody from the outside because they need to break out of the mold. What I recommend that people do if they're on the outside is really ask the question, what's next in the industry or the career? What are the biggest challenges that they're wrestling with? And educating yourself around that so you are articulate about what those challenges are. You understand what they are.

And you again, get back to this issue about what do you bring to the table that could make you a top performer in that business and give people a chance to take a chance on you, that they see it as a benefit to do that?

So don't automatically assume that just because you don't have 35 years of experience in a particular profession, that you're locked out because you may be the fresh breath of air that they're looking for.

Anita Brick: And maybe do that same kind of gap analysis.

Duncan Mathison: Oh, absolutely. The gap analysis, it's a great way to get a handle on and deal truthfully and directly with the things that potentially would stand in your way about being hired.

Anita Brick: So you mentioned you maybe you don't have 35 years of experience and that could be to your advantage. One of the alums asked the question. It was kind of the flip side of that. He said, I'm over 50 and the age thing is definitely a barrier. I'm staying in my field but don't seem to be getting traction. What do you advise?

Duncan Mathison: Well, for me, who's over 50, I think 50 is just a spring chicken, but that's … you know, it's not time for the pasture yet. I'm going to challenge this person a little bit on the age bias factor. And it's true there's always bias in the marketplace, but I would suggest that you might be getting in your own way a little bit.

For example, I've observed people who are new in town or new to an industry, and I've discovered that they're better at unlocking the hidden job market than the locals or the seasoned pros.

Anita Brick: Oh, interesting.

Duncan Mathison: And the reason I think this is, is because the people—the locals and the seasoned pros, if you will, and this is true for people who have been in a career for a long period of time—they make a lot of assumptions about where to look and where not to look, and they'll say things to themselves like, now there's no chance for me there, and they won't even bother to pick up the phone.

This kind of attitude, this kind of approach, really gets in their way and keeps them from following threads in networking to make their job search successful. That being said, it is certainly true that there is bias. Everybody who's in the job search has a negative bias, and I hear it from everybody. And when the economy stinks, it feels overwhelming.

So young people will tell me I'm too young and not experienced. Beautiful people will say to me that they're not taken seriously. Smart people with lots of degrees say that they're overqualified. It goes on and on and on. I mean, Richard Bolles said this, in What Color Is Your Parachute? And it always stuck with me that, yes, the people out there who, for whatever bias or prejudice or whatever there might be, might not consider you, that simply means you ignore them and you move to the people that do count.

And so as an example, with this particular person, I had a client recently, 50 years old, literally the same age, gone into a company, a young company with a young manager, and they were giving him all this grief about, do you have the energy to do the job? And things like that—it was a very inappropriate interview. But I mean, they went down that path and he came out of that just thinking, you know, I don't know if I want to work with these kinds of people, yuck.

You know, and right after that, he had a networking meeting with the president and a vice president of a smaller company that were older people. And they looked at him and said, we like your maturity. We like your in-depth business experience. We like what you bring to the table. He was thrilled because it was a better fit for him.

One of the things you might think about in your networking is to actually seek out hiring managers that are in their 50s. Ask that question of people as you go on this journey to find the right job for you.

Anita Brick: It sounds like the biases may be there, but don't let them become your excuse.

Duncan Mathison: It's that and expand your network and deal with them. Deal with them. But the thing that I find most interesting is that the seasoned players who do not go deep and broad in their network, they stay in their little cluster of people that they know and they never break out of it. And they often are much more limited in the way they execute a search than people who are complete newbies.

And they have no boundaries, and they don't know where to start, and they find a job.

Anita Brick: Two more questions. I've looked around specific scenarios. So another one from an alum, and she said, I've been out of work for more than a year for personal reasons, and now I'm having a hard time explaining why I did that and why I'm ready and able to start working again. What advice would you give her in terms of telling a story under those circumstances?

Duncan Mathison: I think the first thing is that there are two kinds of things that get people in people's way. One of them is gaps and the other is job loss, right? If you've been out of work for a period of time, the employer needs to know that whatever it is that you did during that period of time that you were out of the workforce, that it makes you more motivated, maybe even more qualified to be their next best employee.

They need to know that you are so looking forward to getting back in the saddle as an example. I mean, you know, I can pull from my own experience. At one point I got in a horrible automobile—my wife and I got in a horrible automobile accident, and it literally took us out of the workforce for like eight months. And the story I used, I said, I didn't get into the whole gory details of the accident, because what I discovered is it completely waylaid the interview.

And so I simply said we had an accident, took us out of the job market for quite a while. We're doing really well, and I have to tell you that from that experience, I am really motivated to get back into a new job to make up for lost time and to really to try to be the very best employee I possibly can, because I've got a lot to make up.

Anita Brick: OK, it's one thing to say, but how do you demonstrate it? So it just doesn't sound like a line.

Duncan Mathison: I think the first thing in the way you demonstrate it is that you believe it.

Anita Brick: Good point. No, you're absolutely right. Because if you don't, obviously they won't either. You're right. Right.

Duncan Mathison: So the fluff line doesn't work very well. You know, let's use kind of the worst-case scenario. The worst-case scenario might be, you know, you're in a mental state or you had some kind of psychiatric issue that got in your way. I think the message is that you don't get into those details. You simply say, I had a health problem. I took time to take care of it. I am completely recovered. I am really excited to get back into the workplace. And as I looked at your position and what you were looking for, it seemed like really a great fit for me. Tell me more about the position.

What you do is you address it. You put it in a box, right? And then you use a question to move on, so that it doesn't become the anchor.

Anita Brick: And I guess it depends on the sensibilities of the region in the world. Because, you know, people obviously from Booth are all from all over the world, talking about health might completely shut it down in one area or of the world, and in another it may be OK. So I guess it's doing your homework to understand how to communicate that message, but not to be afraid of it. Sounds like that's your message.

Duncan Mathison: Absolutely. And I think you bring up a really great point that you do have to be somewhat culturally sensitive about these kinds of things. And it may be another generic way of doing it, to say I was dealing with a number of important family matters, and now that those are completed and completely resolved, I'm ready to go back into the workforce.

Maybe another way of doing that—or the person I know that took a trip and traveled around the world. She was very worried about people taking a negative from that. Her experience actually was that people were very interested. They'd say, cool, you know, that's great. Tell me more. Yeah, tell me more. So, you know, I think the exercise, the rule of thumb should be to have a strategy to kind of put it in a box, make sure that your lesson learned from that or what you talk about from that, even if it's very limited, is the message of the next job.

Their job, their opportunity is exactly what you're looking for. And you're ready to get in the saddle and you're fully committed to the opportunity. And then follow up with the question, move beyond it. The thing you have to worry about is if you try to skate around it, if you try to bury it, if you try to pretend it's not there, it will show.

Not because they'll do some serious background check or your Facebook thing or whatever that might be. It will show because you will exhibit the anxiety around that gap, and you'll be awkward in your language. As you talk about your background, you will stumble with it a little bit. Your anxiety will show, so get a handle on it.

Anita Brick: Good point. And you're absolutely right because people pick up on that. One other, and this was an Exec MBA student. He wanted to know, he said, “I think I'm different than most of the Chicago Booth students and alumni. I want to develop a story not to find a job, but to pitch my startup. So people don't seem to really believe that I want to be out on my own. What kinds of things should I include in my story to help them believe it?”

Duncan Mathison: I think this is awesome. I think the first thing is he's probably talking to the wrong people. And the reason I say that is because the feedback he's getting is I don't know why you'd want to work for yourself, it seems too hard or whatever that might be. It's kind of what I'm hearing. Would you agree with that?

Anita Brick: Yeah. Or you know, there's not as much security, although I think that's a bogus assumption in and of itself. But so just not seeing him being on his own.

Duncan Mathison: But the point of the matter is some people think you're absolutely nuts to work for somebody else or work for a large corporation. And so why would you want to do that? That is the refrain I hear from people who own their own businesses, including my wife, who has her own business. She thinks it's nuts, you know, to work for somebody else.

So the first thing I would urge this person to do is find a different audience. An example of that is go find somebody who has started their own business or more than one business, maybe even businesses that have failed, and share their story with them, because those people will ask the right questions. Those people will take the conversation down a path that will really help this person test and refine their story and help them focus on what's important.

And it's a different culture, a different community. Do that. And I think what they'll discover is they'll get people who have a very different perspective, who will resonate with them. And the result of that will either be an affirmation of what they're trying to achieve, or it will be an affirmation that maybe that's not the path that they want to be on.

So change your audience. Find people who get it, who understand the nature of starting a business and running a business.

Anita Brick: So they can refine their pitch. And I know in most of the campuses they have an opportunity\ to do that. And if you haven't looked at the Chicago Booth site in a while, go to the main site and then click on research centers and you'll see the Polsky Center. And there are lots of interesting things that they do throughout the year and in different parts of the globe that can help facilitate that, too.

It's really good advice because once you get that pitch together, then you can go out to the people, perhaps, that you're looking for funding and talk to them with a solid story. But the presence and the delivery to carry that story so that people get, yeah, he's serious about this.

Duncan Mathison: Yes. You know, one of the things I think is really important about these transition stories is practice and practice and practice and practice and practice them with people who are likely to be your audience, regardless of what your objective is. And listen to the feedback. Watch how people respond to you and use that as a means to refine your story.

Anita Brick: A friend of mine was starting her own company, and at first people were like, no, no, no, no, it can't be done. It can't be done. And she started taking it seriously at the beginning. And then she realized they weren't saying no. They were really saying no, not this way. And as she started saying, OK, so they're telling me that there's an aspect of what I'm presenting that is not the right way.

What is it that I need to learn? And she eventually refined it and launched and was very successful. But she didn't take the “noes” as end games but more as information to help her refine what she was doing.

Duncan Mathison: That is really insightful. I used to teach classes on how to start your own business, and I remember this one where this woman had an idea to start a taxi service for moms, you know, run kids around, and all of the talent around the table were all corporate people, and they were just ripping this woman to shreds. Her business plan and all the insurance liability, blah, blah, blah, blah.

They went on and on at the session. I said, so what was this experience like for you? And she said, it was great because what it did was it allowed me to understand what were the reactions, what were the issues, what are the concerns I needed to pay attention to? In that class, she was the only one that successfully started her business.

Anita Brick: Wow. Yeah. That's great.

Duncan Mathison: Yeah. So your lesson from that … and that's the lesson you should get. If you're starting a business, you talk it up, you get the feedback. Realize that negative feedback helps you understand the issues you need to deal with in order to move forward. They are not cut out for this and know that sometimes you may be talking to the wrong people.

Anita Brick: Good point. One final question. We've been talking a lot about different scenarios and how to bridge both the real and perceived gaps with a compelling story. If you were going to advise people who are listening today, here are the three things that you should do right away to begin building that kind of story, what would you tell them?

Duncan Mathison: This is an interesting one because it's a little different. But one of the things I really urge people to do is to start a journal and write in your journal every day, for at least 30 minutes. The research has told us that people who write in journals, who write about who they are, what it is that they want to do, the issues related to their job search, they tend to be much more articulate in crafting a story that is compelling and that holds water and it's solid.

The research was interesting that we did. It was through the University of Texas, and what we discovered is that people who journal found jobs more quickly. They were happier with the job they ended up with, and they actually were paid better than the people who didn't do the journaling. So journaling is one of my first tips to really find your message.

The second thing is try it out on people and look for the reaction, particularly if you're trying to bridge gaps, because by watching the reaction and by listening carefully, you can kind of get where it's connecting and where it's not connecting. And your goal is to deliver a message that really connects for people, particularly people who are hiring managers, and then finally do an alignment check, check to see whether or not the things you talk about are really highly relevant to your job or your job target.

And literally, you should be able to write the thing out, and you should be able to compare that against a list of this is what's needed for somebody who's great in this position, and be able to see the connections, or at least be able to deal with the gaps and have a strategy for for managing each gap you've identified. Those are the three things I recommend that people do.

Anita Brick: Well, that's great, and great insights. I think this is one of the most difficult things that people do as they are transitioning, whether it's a promotion or a brand new job or a completely new career, a story is so essential. So thank you for sharing your vast knowledge and wisdom with us.

Duncan Mathison: I really appreciate it, Anita. Thank you very much.

Anita Brick: And if you want to check out more things that Duncan has in his blog, because he's always updating things on his blog, you can go to UnlocktheHiddenJobMarket.com. Thanks again, Duncan.

Duncan Mathison: Thank you, Anita. I hope this was really helpful for the listeners.

Anita Brick: I'm sure it will be so. Thanks again and thank you all for listening. This is Anita Brick with CareerCast at Chicago Booth. Keep advancing.