Successfully Transition Into Your New Job
- July 18, 2014
- CareerCast
Anita Brick: Hi, this is Anita Brick, and welcome to CareerCast at Chicago Booth. To help you advance in your career. Today, we're delighted to be speaking with Michelle Hay. And Michelle is an accomplished human resources executive with extensive experience developing and leading the implementation of strategic initiatives. She is currently the director of HR for the Americas at At Kearney, leading talent acquisition, integration, learning and development, talent management, rewards and off boarding.
Miss Hay is a member of the Americas Leadership team. She received a B.S. in psychology from the University of Houston and an MBA with a concentration in Finance and Human Resource Management from the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. Michelle, thanks so much. It's an honor to have you on the call.
Michelle Hay: Well, thank you so much for the warm welcome, Anita, and I'm happy to do this.
Anita Brick: All right. Wonderful. Well, there are a lot of questions. I don't know if we'll get to all of them, but we will do our best. A couple of people asked what are the three most important things to do for a successful transition? Should I or the person who's the new employee? Did they initiate it? Or should someone like you be initiating it in their organization?
Michelle Hay: That's a really good question. If you're really lucky, the organization that you're joining should be initiating your transition into the firm. That's not always the case, though. But if I were starting a new role and by the way, I did about six months ago. So I've got some fresh experience here. I think it's important to start that conversation before you join and talk about your transition and what that looks like, and who's going to help you if it's not offered to you.
I would suggest that you ask some questions about who can help you. What's important? The three things that you can do are. Number one, set goals for what you want to achieve in your first 90 days and your second 90 days. To put a plan together on how you're going to achieve those goals. And three, and maybe most importantly, really work to build allies and relationships because you're going to need them.
Anita Brick: You know, you're absolutely right. There are actually a number of questions around that, like how do you begin to build those relationships?
Michelle Hay: One, this was.
Anita Brick: An executive MBA student asked, and I thought it was a very wonderful question. This person said there is often an unstated culture and unofficial power structure in most organizations. How do you learn about both, and how do you deal with relationships, both with the people who have defined power, and then the people who may have what I would maybe call the real power. So how do you build those relationships?
Michelle Hay: Oh, yes, there is always an unstated culture and unofficial power structure in a firm. And this is really where your EQ and your relationship building skills have to come into play. Hopefully, by the time that you've agreed to join a firm, you have a good understanding of what their stated culture is, what they talk about. You've met with a number of people, so you've probably got a good idea of how they portray themselves.
What most executives come into a new role where they fail is that they fail to understand all the nuances of the culture, and they aren't able to adapt. It's not that they can't do the job. They don't fit into the culture, and the culture ultimately spits them out of the system. So this is really, really one of the most critical things that you need to understand is what is that unstated culture?
There's a model out there that many of you have probably heard of. It's called the iceberg model. It's about culture. It's aimed at people and people's culture. And what it says is you can look at somebody and you make inferences about what you see. So if you look at me, I'm a woman, I've got brown hair, I'm tall, I work in a corporate environment.
So you start to form this picture that's the part of the iceberg that you can see above the water lines. But there's so much below the water line that you can't see. So you don't know that I'm from Texas and that I'm from a very blue collar family. I'm the first and only person in my family to go to college.
I put myself through college, and if you know that, then you make other inferences about me. The same can apply to the culture in a company. What you see, you can make inferences about. But really you have to get in there and understand what is it about this culture and how do I operate in this culture? In order to learn that initially you have to listen more than you talk.
Anita Brick: You have to ask.
Michelle Hay: A lot of questions. And then given all of that information that you take in, you have to be super adaptable. There's really no room in the world anymore for people who can't adapt to different environments, and they're changing all the time. It's also, I'm going to say this a bunch of times, it's so helpful if you have an ally, someone that you can go to and ask questions that you don't want to ask of other people that can help you navigate tricky situations and potential landmines.
Anita Brick: Okay, so that's a very good point. There was an evening student who said one of the critical aspects I think of when starting a new role is how to choose allies and partners. I'm about to start a new role. What do I need to specifically do in the first few months to identify and cultivate allies and partners?
Michelle Hay: And that is so, so critical because you really do need that. And hopefully you're going to be assigned or one person will naturally evolve into someone who's going to help you. When I've started new roles, it has been critical for me to come in knowing that I have somebody that I can go to who is committed to making me a success, who has the political power that is needed to help push things through, who has the time that they can invest, at least for the first six months?
Hopefully you've been assigned that person. If not, you've got to find that person. Oftentimes, it's not the person that you report directly to. Sometimes it is, but oftentimes it's not. Think when you're putting your plan together for what the first 90 days looks like, what the second 90 days is going to look like. One of the objectives in that plan is to find that person.
Or maybe it's multiple people who have the interests, the political capital and the time to help you in different situations. And they do naturally emerge. And again, it's about relationship building and listening more than telling, so that you can build those strong relationships. You do need to find that person or people.
Anita Brick: I totally agree with some organizations. It's not so obvious there is no one assigned. Are there some tactical things that someone can do to make themselves more attractive and actually pull someone into that role, even if no one is assigned? What would you advise someone tactically to do to facilitate that?
Michelle Hay: It's a give and take relationship. One of the things that you should do is figure out what you have to give to this other person. How can you help them so that they can invest and help you? And I think that depends on the role that you're going into. If you're going into a manager role or leading a function, you should be able to find someone else who might be outside of your function that you can provide something to give them a benefit in exchange for helping you learn the organization.
That iceberg model again can help there, because what you want to do in order to build relationships with people so that you've got something that's mutually beneficial, is understand what their motivations are, what drives them, so that you can help them. So it's a systematic approach and figuring out what you can give to someone and what they can give you in return.
Anita Brick: Good point. The other side of that or another component of that, and this comes from an alum. I understand the importance of those initial days and months. How do I establish a positive reputation, build, as you said, a mutually beneficial network and create some clear successes? So it sounds like the give and take part is going to be super important. How do you establish clear successes in the short term, when you know that a lot of, especially the more strategic roles, it's going to take time to have those. How do you create some wins going in?
Michelle Hay: That is the other component that you really need to think about when you're putting your plan together. How do you create some shorter term wins? It's tricky, and you have to strike the right balance between coming on too strong and trying to make recommendations too early, which I really caution against because your first month, you want to listen and you don't want to make too many recommendations because you're going to damage relationships instead of build relationships.
And you really want to honor where the firm or the organization is because there's a reason they got there. So I would say pause, take time to do that. One of the mistakes that people make is not prioritizing where they can have an impact. Initially for the first month, maybe two months, listen, do more listening, and then use that as an opportunity to set your priorities.
In most cases, you're going to find a number of things that need to be done, but you can't tackle them all. So figure out which ones are some low hanging fruit and which ones have a longer term strategic impact. And I would say tackle some of the low hanging fruit, get some success under your belt and that will set you up to make some more strategic impacts for the future.
Anita Brick: You know, it's a great point. I think part of it is how do you know what those priorities are? And another evening, a student said, how do you balance some of the most important things to the company? This is really interesting, he said. Do I need to be almost aggressive, guarding a certain percentage of my time to work on long term projects? How do I know what the priorities are? Do I ask my manager, how do I determine what's most important to the company? So I get my priorities done and I get their priorities done together?
Michelle Hay: This is an age-old dilemma, and in fact, I was just talking to some of my global counterparts about this yesterday. It's difficult to find the right balance between serving the needs of the firm, figuring out what they are, serving those, and then serving your own needs. I think what you should do, though, is look at this as a long term game.
First, you need to earn your right to focus on your own development, figure out what the priorities are. And again, your manager certainly plays a role in figuring out what the firm's priorities are and talk to other people as well, and then begin to prioritize. Once you've had some success in accomplishing what the firm or the organization needs, you can then switch a little bit to focus on where you need to.
It's a negotiation and a conversation that you need to have with your manager. Here are some of the things that you want for your development, and how to weave those into what you're doing. You've got to focus first on what the firm needs you to do, and then you can focus on what you need. I don't think they're mutually exclusive in most cases.
Anita Brick: And having that open dialog and conversation sounds like that's really crucial.
Michelle Hay: That's exactly right. So that everybody has a common understanding.
Anita Brick: I believe this is sort of echoed by another evening student, is that it's easy in today's world to find out information even before you get there about products, about processes, about the markets that your new company is involved in. He is concerned with getting a jump on the interpersonal component. I think it goes back to what you have been talking about with the relationships. It seems like this person is a little bit concerned. They know that they can do the job, but they're concerned about their own, maybe not as strong interpersonal skills. What can someone do during that onboarding process to improve their own interpersonal skills?
Michelle Hay: I really do think that interpersonal skills are what sets people apart and what makes them successful. It's not that you have to change who you are as a person because you've gotten to where you are because of who you are, but you need to really focus on taking cues and responding in a way that's productive. Asking for feedback is really important, and you should do that at first on a weekly basis, from your manager and from others that you're building relationships with, so that you can get some of the input that you need in order to make the right adjustments.
I can't overemphasize that enough. Ask for feedback. And that also shows people that you've got interpersonal skills, that you've got some emotional intelligence and can take that in. But you also have to show that you're willing to make the adjustments that they're suggesting.
Anita Brick: How do you frame the request for feedback? How can we frame it to make it easy for the person to give us feedback? Because a lot of people feel uncomfortable giving feedback, they.
Michelle Hay: Really can feel uncomfortable giving feedback. I think it is important to frame it. So I'm glad you asked that question. I can tell you what I do. I will say to someone, look, my goal here is to be successful and to help drive the firm where we need to go. In order to do that, I need feedback and I'm not going to take it personally.
I just want feedback so that we can all get better. So I am totally open to whatever you need to say to me. Just listen and at the end say thank you. You can ask clarifying questions if you want to, but never try to defend yourself or reject what the person is saying, even if you don't agree with it.
Anita Brick: What you said isn't really crucial because I've seen people ask for feedback and then when they get the feedback, they get really defensive.
Michelle Hay: And then you'll never get feedback again. You're right. And you can even say to them, I know this is your opinion, letting them know that there are multiple opinions out there, and you'll collect multiple inputs and hopefully make the right changes.
Anita Brick: A few questions around Mr. Apps, and let's start with a general one. One person said, what are 2 or 3 mistakes that you see a lot of people make in the onboarding process? This is actually from weekend Student because I want to avoid them.
Michelle Hay: One of the first things I see is not being mindful enough of how you're perceived, and if you need to adjust your style. I'm not saying that you need to make radical adjustments to who you are, but you really need to take cues from those around you to see if you're being too aggressive or not aggressive enough, if you're meeting the right people, if you're not meeting the right people, the language that you use is really important.
You need to be really mindful of how people talk about things. So there's what you say and there's how you say it. How you say something needs to fit with the culture of the firm. Really be conscious of listening to how people frame things. So that's the first thing. The second thing is a little bit opposite of the first, and it's not different enough to be able to set yourself apart and make the necessary impact that you were hired to make.
It's a tricky balance, and sometimes you have to ruffle some feathers. Just make sure that they're the right feathers and that you do it respectfully and keep in mind, I'm going to say it a bunch of times. You need allies and relationships before you begin to ruffle feathers. So work to build those, get the support you need, and then you can go and accomplish the changes that you need to accomplish.
Anita Brick: Good. So an alum is not having a great transition, she said. I am not having a very successful transition so far, and I'm worried. I started a new job about a month ago and I'm not getting along that well with my manager. I think he wanted to hire someone else. I think a friend of his and senior leadership wanted me. I really liked the company, and I really get along with the rest of the team and want to keep this job. What would you advise?
Michelle Hay: I would advise having a hard time with your manager. If you haven't done so already, ask for feedback, which opens up the dialog for talking about how you feel. You have nothing to lose at this point, I think. Well, you do. If you don't open up, I don't think you'll be successful. So I think you have to have that conversation with your manager, tell them how you're feeling, and then you can begin to set some objectives and identify any misalignments that you might have.
Anita Brick: How can you prepare for that conversation? So you have priorities. So you have an agenda or an outline. Because I think it could end up in a very emotional, even potential confrontation, or at least getting some defensiveness on the other side. What's the best way to prepare for that kind of conversation?
Michelle Hay: So I would certainly not go in making accusatory statements. Number one, you should ask for feedback. Number two, ask for some clarity on your priorities and talk about what you can do to help accomplish what this manager needs to accomplish. So I certainly would not go in with the objective of saying, I'm not getting what I need from you, but more about how we can work together.
Give me some feedback and then I think that will put down the defenses a little bit so that maybe you can get to a spot and it might not be in this first conversation, but you'll start to lay the foundation and the framework for how you can work together.
Anita Brick: Got it. There is a weekend student who hasn't started yet. He said, I'm starting a new job in about five weeks, and I know the importance of having a strong internal network, which I do in my current company. That said, I've been told to reach out to future colleagues, quote unquote, slowly so as not to seem aggressive. This worries me for two reasons. Number one, I don't want to be viewed as aggressive, and maybe they already view me that way. And two, I know that I will really have a hard time getting things done without a solid internal network. Any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks, Michele.
Michelle Hay: So I think that's interesting that building your internal network quickly is being positioned as aggressive, and it sounds like there may be some things around the culture that you'll need to pay attention to there. I would encourage you to build your network, but position it in a very non aggressive or threatening way and position it as learning. So you're not going to go in.
And when you meet with someone for the first time, tell them what changes you're going to make. You're going to be a listener. You're going to take it in. I would start with roles in the firm that might lend itself more to what you're doing. So start slowly and talk about understanding who they are, what they've done, where they've come from, what issues they have.
Take that feedback in and figure out a plan for going forward. To widen your circle out, try a few, see what kind of reaction you get. And I would say to remember, it's okay to push the envelope. Just don't push it too hard and too far right away.
Anita Brick: Given the feedback that he seems to be getting even before starting, do you think it would be better to do those conversations, say over a cup of coffee, rather than doing them in someone's office? Do you think in a quasi social setting would be better, or do you think keeping it all business and doing it in the office would be a better way to go?
Michelle Hay: That's a really good point. The more casual you can make it, the less I'll put in quotes. Aggressive it might seem. If you can go to lunch or a cup of coffee, that would be really great.
Anita Brick: There were a couple questions that were very specific. One was about moving into a new culture geographically in addition to the company culture, and the other was getting promoted where there are other people who are now a junior to this person. So let's start with the first one. And then evening students said, I've been hired to run an M&A and new business development group in fields that I know less about than others in the firm.
I will actually be reporting to me. How do I get up to speed in a new endeavor without alienating others, or losing the respect of those that may be unhappy about my promotion? I clearly need their help. I want to build an effective team. That's a challenging situation when you're peers, and now you're the person's manager when they expected to be your manager.
Michelle Hay: That is a very challenging situation and it happens. The key here is going to be how you build the relationships, or maybe rebuild relationships with those people who either don't understand or don't agree with the promotion, and who may know more in certain areas than you do. But I want to stress here don't lose sight of the reasons that you were promoted.
Find the right time to. I wouldn't say showcase, but to rely upon those skills that you have and the characteristics to begin to prove yourself. I found that it's really helpful to put all your cards on the table when you're trying to build relationships. In this situation, you should admit that you don't have the knowledge that some of your colleagues have in certain specific areas, but what you want to do is create a team that can accomplish whatever it is you're trying to accomplish, and you want to leverage each of the members in the way that's best for them in whatever they can bring to the table.
You can work together to achieve their individual development goals as well. You'll want to get to a point where you can talk about what their goals are. I would also say give them time to adjust. Start where you can have an open dialog about feedback. You're going to want to ask for feedback. You're going to want to give feedback.
I would also say that give them time, but if you've got some team members who aren't going to be able to make the mental and emotional adjustment, then you've got to move forward because you've got a team that needs to operate effectively, and you've got to make sure that you have the right team members to do that.
Anita Brick: And that's very tough, especially if you were friends with that.
Michelle Hay: Is very tough and I would say if you really are friends, they'll be able to make that adjustment, or at least.
Anita Brick: They should be. Got it? How do you acknowledge the experts? To me, there's a balance between not wanting to seem weak in an area and acknowledging the people who are actually excelling in that area. How do you acknowledge people without diminishing your own reputation?
Michelle Hay: I do think it's important to acknowledge the expertise that everyone brings. If you think about the leader of a team or of an organization, they don't have specific subject matter expertise in everything that they lead. That's okay. And it's just not possible. If you can approach it from that mindset and really focus on what one of the things that each of the team members brings to the team and your ability to leverage that and honor that.
It's more about setting up the mindset of the team. And at the individuals on the team so that they, number one, feel valued for what they do bring. But two, the leader of the team has other skills and other competencies that they bring to the table that might not be deep subject matter expertise. It might be more about relationship building, understanding the cultural aspects of the firm and the politics in order to accomplish things and get things done, which is equally as valuable. So I think you have to honor what each person brings and leverage to better the team.
Anita Brick: A good point, that's what all good leaders do. What other situation, which is a little bit unique. This was actually from an alum. This person said, I am a U.S. citizen about to accept an offer to work for a global company based in Northeast Asia. At the EVP level, I will be relocating to Asia. Any advice to help me with the transition to a completely foreign firm? Have you found that your advice concerning global transitions is to be pretty universal?
Michelle Hay: It's tough. You're entering not just a new corporate culture, but a new culture. My advice is get some training on the culture that you'll be going into in Asia, to try to understand what the differences are from the U.S., and hopefully the firm that you're joining is willing to invest in you to give you that leg up. At this stage, it's less about understanding the corporate culture, what you will need to do, but it's more about understanding the broader culture that you'll be operating in, which will help with the corporate culture. I would say that please ask for help there and ask them to invest in some language training, some cultural training to really help jumpstart you. That would be my number one advice.
Anita Brick: Great. This next question. This is a question we get a lot. It comes in from evening, weekend, full time. But mostly I would say executive MBA students and alumni because this is something that often happens. I have been a functional manager and I'm now moving to a more general management role. What is the best way to quickly understand what is happening with the broader business across departments and functions? And then I think the second part you've kind of addressed. How soon should I start making changes and how do I know when it's the right time to start making these changes?
Michelle Hay: I do see when you're moving from one role to another role, you should treat it as if you're going to a whole new company. Now the good news. As you may know, a lot of people are already, but you've got a different lens. So I would say you start with the same things that you would start with. Put your plan together, figure out who you need to meet with, what questions you need to ask.
Be a good listener. Do that for the first 90 days. Do that for the second 90 days, and then just work your plan. And I do think it's okay to. So the question about how do you start making how do you know when to start making changes? It's okay to push the envelope. Just make sure that you've done your homework, that you've talked to the people that you need to talk to. You understand their issues you've prioritized, and then start pushing and be impatient. That's usually a good thing. Just don't be.
Anita Brick: Aggressive about it. And I stay away from arrogance, too.
Michelle Hay: That's exactly right. Well that's right. That's why you do more listening than talking when you're meeting with these people.
Anita Brick: Got it? I do have time for one more question. I do. Okay, good. So we've talked about things at work. We've talked about mistakes that people make and tricky situations. I know you've been through this process yourself and you've helped many people through this transition onboarding process. What are some of the best things that you've seen? And if you were advising someone who was about on board, what are three things that that person should start doing today to create a successful onboarding transitional process?
Michelle Hay: I would say talk to as many people as you can, get as much information as you can, and really go through it and do not make recommendations on what should be changed in the first three months. Just be a sponge and that's one.
Anita Brick: Anything else?
Michelle Hay: Focus more on relationship building. Focus on understanding. And then it's really the same thing. Prioritize. And it's okay to be impatient. And patience is actually good. Just do it in the right way.
Anita Brick: Any final words of wisdom?
Michelle Hay: I would say that transitions onboarding integration is usually viewed as 90 days, but it's longer. And be patient with yourself. Be kind to yourself. Think of it as six months and not 90 days. And in some cases it might even be a year. Given the complexity of the role or the organization that you're joining, realize that you're going to make some missteps and they're usually not fatal. Ask for feedback and tell people about your mistakes that usually build relationships as well. And good luck. Okay, great. Well, you've.
Anita Brick: Just been through it, so who better to talk about this subject. So thank you Michelle. Thanks so much.
Michelle Hay: Thank you for doing this Anita. You're welcome. I'm happy to do it.
Anita Brick: Thanks again. And thank you all for listening. This is Anita Brick with CareerCast at Chicago Booth. Keep advancing.
When do you have the most leverage to make a great impression in your company? Some talent management experts believe that it’s the moment you accept an offer. In this CareerCast, Michelle Hay, director of HR for the Americas at A.T. Kearney, leading talent acquisition, integration, learning and development, talent management, rewards, and off-boarding, shares her multi-faceted experience, insights, and advanced approach for successfully transitioning into a new role.
Michelle Hay is an accomplished human resources executive with extensive experience developing and leading the implementation of strategic initiatives. She is currently the director of HR for the Americas at A.T. Kearney, leading talent acquisition, integration, learning and development, talent management, rewards, and off-boarding. Hay is a member of the leadership team for the Americas and is focused on helping A.T. Kearney drive the firm to achieve its Vision 2020 by being the most admired firm and one of the top three high-value-added consulting firms in areas they choose to compete. She has been the senior vice president of human resources at Heitman, a global real estate investment management firm. At Heitman, Hay served as the senior member of the company’s executive management team, focusing on corporate strategic initiatives for human resources supporting offices in the US, Europe, and Asia. She was a change agent that worked to lay the foundation for effective human resources practices that positioned the company for significant growth. Hay’s focus is on aligning culture, leadership, and management with the strategic business direction. Earlier in her career, she served in consulting roles at Deloitte & Touche, Ernst & Young, Capgemini, and Capital H Group in human resources. In those roles, she focused on aligning business strategy with talent strategies, designing reward programs, implementing talent acquisition strategies, developing performance management programs, and leading talent development functions. Hay received a BS in Psychology from the University of Houston and an MBA with a concentration in finance and human resource management from the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign.
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