Managing Your Career As A Global Professional

Anita Brick: Hi, this is Anita Brick, and welcome to CareerCast at the Chicago GSB to help you advance in your career. Today we're really excited to be speaking with Susan Ford Collins, who's president of The Technology of Success. She's developed and facilitated over 2,500 training programs globally for organizations including CNN, IBM, Merrill Lynch, Women in Leadership in Shanghai and Shenzhen, China, PricewaterhouseCoopers, American Express, and Kimberly-Clark.

Collins has published several books, including The Joy of Success: 10 Essential Skills for Getting the Success You Want, and it's been published in English, Chinese, French, Polish, and Indonesian. Susan, it's great to be able to chat with you today.

Susan Collins: I love it. It always blows my mind when I hear somebody give a summary of me.

Anita Brick: Well, here we go. So for the rest of us … It's interesting. People sent in a bunch of questions, and a lot of people had a very similar question. OK, so let me pull one in particular, who was a student in the Evening Program.

Susan Collins: OK.

Anita Brick: His question was when deciding whether to take an international assignment, are there key indicators that will allow the person to assess fit, development, and adaptability to and from the international assignment?

Susan Collins: Wow. Now that is a global question. Let me just say this. You need to know the language and culture that you're getting into. And you need to understand that the management style in other cultures, like China and India, may be very different. And unless you are working for a global company where the management style is more cohesive with the one you're used to here in the US, then you need to do a lot of research to find out exactly what that style is.

In China, for example, the style tends to be much more controlling, much more dominating. It's moving away from that, but that's the fallback position. It's the same thing in India. Or, you know, a lot of the countries that I go to … Here in America, as employees, we have a lot more freedom to be creative. And I've heard complaints from people when they went into global situations that they felt more capped or more curtailed than they liked.

So that's the beginning of the answer. But I think a lot of what we'll be talking about will shed light on this, and I'll say, go back to question one. This is part of the answer.

Anita Brick: OK. So this is a good sort of macro question to start. … So if you think about it, you won't have the opportunity to even embark on an assignment outside of your home region unless you have positioned yourself accordingly. What kinds of things do you see? People who have the opportunity to work in multiple regions—how do they best prepare themselves, and how do they position themselves within their organization?

Susan Collins: Well, I think you have to make a decision as to what culture you want to work in. Where do you want to work? And really take a look from their perspective at you as someone that they might want on their team, or they might want to share an experience with you. What do you bring? What do you have?

One of the things you have is you have cultural knowledge that Indian and Chinese employees are dying to have. They don't … they may know English, although their understanding of English is much less than you might expect. I was shocked when I really started working that even though they were nodding and they seemed to be understanding me, that when we were really working in depth, they weren't as clear about the language as they appeared to be on the surface.

But I would say you really need to look at you and your interests and your passions. One of the groups that has the biggest opportunity right now is the people who were brought up in other cultures and who are thinking about returning to them. There's, you know, the so-called brain drain where a lot of students came to the US, and now we've closed off a lot of those opportunities.

And fortunately, they've gotten the knowledge and experience and the network here, and they're going back to their home countries, and they're noticing opportunities because they worked here and because they have connections here that they're taking there. Taiwan is a fabulous example of where the government and everyone there worked to accept these people back and to allow them to create businesses, to make that easy to happen.

So you've got to sell yourself. I work with a lot of people who are going back to their home countries and taking their experiences here and taking the business development there to the next level.

Anita Brick: So how does someone in one region differentiate themselves to be valuable to an organization, either within their current organization or … and I would think that might even be more challenging, to find a new organization to sponsor them in a new region.

Susan Collins: Well, one of the questions I got emailed was about working with Citi. And, you know, the most fruitful opportunities, at least on the surface, unless there's some extenuating circumstances, are usually within your own multinational company. And why would they want you there?

Well, I worked with a woman yesterday who suddenly is able to say, wait, I can expand your financial reach into China. I worked there, I grew up there, I have family and connections there. And this head of this very large bank said, oh my goodness, I never thought of that. So she's selling herself up. She's selling herself out. She's just been working in the US market with US customers. But suddenly in the work that we're doing together, she's saying, hey, I have a skill set I didn't recognize I had.

And it's in that identification of passion, skill set, something that you know about you and your interests that you're going to have to brand and you're going to have to market, and you're going to have to make them aware of.

Anita Brick: Well, one of the other questions that came from a Weekend student was, you know, she's been working and studying in the US, right, for the last eight years.

Susan Collins: Right.

Anita Brick: And she knows there are a lot of people like her. There are many other Chinese students who are in a similar position. But her question was, what are some issues she should consider as she and her family decide whether or not to go back to China.

Susan Collins: Well, you know, I really related to that. I got that email too, and I really relate to that question because I am doing workshops with women in leadership in China, and there are some challenges, but they tell me it's the most advantageous time for women that's ever occurred in China. So there are huge opportunities. The downside is there's still some of that old limiting management, particularly in Chinese companies. The women there tell me they far prefer to work with multinationals. On the family side, women there work very long and hard. And on the upside, because of the one-child policy there, there's usually grandparents or there's a lot of support. Women find it easier there to find good daycare and good education for their kids.

So there's an advantage there. But I would say the biggest upside of all of this is we are a global economy now, and I think raising our kids to live in other cultures as we work in other cultures is a very big benefit.

Anita Brick: How do you … I mean, there was another question that came from someone, and this person wanted to know, how do you minimize the, I guess, the transition time or the adjustment time? If you're bringing your whole family into a new region where they may not necessarily be familiar with the culture of the language.

Susan Collins: Well, again, that's, you know, take a trip there in advance. Look at movies about that culture. Learn—if you're going to China, learn Mandarin, or if you're moving to Guangdong, you're going to the South of China. Learn Cantonese in advance. Even if you don't know the language perfectly, get a feel for it and give your kids a feel for it.

When I was going to China the first time, I played some Mandarin tapes for my grandchildren. And lo and behold, a day after I was struggling to be able to say fēijī, which is airplane, my grandson points up to the sky and says … fēijī. So, you know, your kids are much more open to learning than you are, as long as you expose them to it. And if you set it in the context of we're going to have an adventure, aren't we lucky? I think that really makes a difference.

Anita Brick: So in order to … I mean, there were a number of questions about, you know, how do I get that international opportunity? How do I get that? And a lot of it, as we know, is the managing of relationships. So what are some kinds of ideas or tips that you would give people about how to manage personal and professional relationships that may cross regions?

Susan Collins: Well, going back to this banking experience that I had yesterday with a young woman who was Chinese, you know, she wasn't thinking of going back to China until we sat down and we assessed her assets. What were her strengths? What did she have that nobody else had? What did she have more of than other people did? What was her dream?

What fantasy did she have? And she started talking about China and China and China. And it was only in that sense of I have something, I have something. Let me figure it out. Then she started going to networking meetings here in Miami, and she found out the statistics on how many hundreds of billions of dollars the Chinese government is going to be spending to improve trade in this area and in Latin America, and what's happening in Latin America and the banking and financial opportunities that were going to occur.

Only then was she able to go to her bank and say, I can do something for you. They didn't think of it. In fact, the head of the bank yesterday was stunned when she mentioned, I mean, he kind of fell over on the desk with his hand up, going, oh my goodness, I never saw that opportunity.

You need to be the one who shows him that opportunity. I think that we think they're going to come to us and say, would you like to have an international experience? And that tends to happen occasionally, but the experiences I've had go the other way: that you find the opportunity and you put it in their mind that you could do it.

I know that's how it happened with me the first time I went to India. I was told, no, no, no, no. We want … we want somebody who’s Indian. And I just kept saying, no, no, no, I have other skills that you need. You don't understand. You really want me on this team. And, you know, in the end, I ended up going and doing it.

But it wasn't easy. It wasn't … It didn't happen kind of in the flow. It happened because I built a dam and made them go down that stream.

Anita Brick: There you go. Well, and I guess that goes to one of the other questions that had come in about how do you position yourself when a company could hire locals. And I think you just answered that question. You have to really differentiate yourself and really be able to come … to present, in a compelling way, the attributes that you have that no one else does.

Susan Collins: Exactly. And I know there was another email that said that there was a trend to hire locally and not to pull so many Americans in, and I have to acknowledge that's true. There is definitely a trend to work within their own culture right now. I mean, China's an enormous place. When you go to Shanghai for the first time, to get the scale of that city of 20 million people kind of blows your mind.

And they have a lot of people, and their people are being really well educated there now. So yes, that is true. But like every time where we say there's no jobs or whatever, there will be people who find a niche.

Anita Brick: And that's really, really key. I think one of the other things that you and I talked about is that kind of success and leadership skills are very important. And yet what's required in different regions is very different. And so let's talk a little bit about that. I mean, what are those skills that you need that people need to understand more in depth?

Susan Collins: Well, I ended up writing a book, Shifting Gears, which you can download on my website. I've put it there for you, but I think this is really essential. What I discovered was that there are three gears that businesses and individuals operate in, and as they succeed and as they lead.

In the first gear, it's about following the rules, doing the right thing, being good, being correct, being loyal to a person, to a set of rules. And this gear of success is very important when something is new, when you are in a training program or you're just starting off in a new city or whatever. But the second gear of success, once you've gotten those basics in place, is you stop following all the rules you were taught initially, and you become much more outcome oriented.

You are assigned projects. You're given time frames, you're managed and not supervised on a daily basis. And, you know, you begin to become more independent. In the third gear, you get to the place where everything that's been taught to you and all the systems in place don't work, and suddenly you wake up or you’re standing in the shower and you say, oh my goodness, I just thought of another way to do this.

And this is third gear. This is probably the most important gear to understand right now is that when you have an idea, you are responsible for doing something with it. And I think this is … the key to being a global professional is, can you recognize your idea is good? Can you sell it? Can you form it? Can you find co-dreamers?

That is, other people that you can trust with the idea and you can share with the idea and you can get their input and you can build the idea in your mind so solid that, as one of the people I studied years ago, one of the greats on the planet, said to me, I felt like it was so real I could step off the end of the limb right into it. And that's the third gear of success when you master it.

So here's how this applies globally. When I went to China the first time, I saw two very distinct things. One, most of the population is in first gear. If you go outside the cities, you see the old rules, the patriarchy, being obedient to parents, being obedient to the religion, not going outside the rules and … very controlling government.

And that's been the tradition in India and in China, in many other parts of the world. And the people there stay in that gear. They think that way. They don't think there's any other gear. But then you see the young Chinese, the professionals who are exploring second gear, and it's different and it's unusual for them. And they're leaving their cities, and they're leaving their families and their religions, and they are … they're serving the almighty dollar.

They're building their resumes. They're loyal to one and one thing only, and that's career advancement. And getting themselves in trouble, and their family life and their health as we have them here in the US. But I think we're a little further along with that, and we're beginning to see the impact of second gear. But they are really struggling …

When I do creativity workshops in Shanghai or in other parts of China, and I create, or I set up a creative project for them where they have to break out of the limits of their usual thinking, they just sit there like I am asking them to do the impossible. Where here in the US, I'll get 30 or 40 answers within two or three minutes, and it's important to understand these gears because, for example, Microsoft pulled their team back from Bangalore, India. Why? Well, it looks like a big cost saver initially, and they put a lot of money into infrastructure and resources and sent their trainers, their acculturation people, their language.

They set up the communication infrastructure, but they didn't understand these gears. So yes, initially their trainers were very happy—they learned very well, and they learned all the rules and they learned the procedures and how the programs work. But then when they promoted them up and expected them to operate in second gear, to be independent, to meet goals in specific time frames, to only be managed but not supervised daily, they couldn't do it. It started to fall apart.

And then the kicker was, they were loyal to themselves and the building of their resumes. And as a result, the turnover rate on many of the teams in India was 70 percent, which meant it wasn't cost saving at all. And American customers who were operating in second gear, which is they wanted their problem solved, or third gear, they wanted … they knew, maybe it was a new problem, but they didn't care. They wanted a solution. American customers were getting hung up on because the Indian customer service reps felt that they were too demanding and that they were asking the impossible.

So these are the reasons that you, as someone who's interested in a global career, need to learn these three gears thoroughly, and it's the reason that I put it up as a free download on my website, because I think if there was one thing I could say to you that would really make working globally work for you, it would be to understand these three gears, and most people don't.

Now, you don't have to understand them as thoroughly in the US, because most everybody in the business world is operating in second gear most of the time. So even if you're unconscious of it, you can get along. But as soon as you leave our culture and our business environment, if you don't understand it you're going to make bigger and bigger mistakes, you're going to step into situations you're not prepared to deal with.

You're going to take jobs that you don't like. You're going to have managers that you end up hating. And that's why I wanted to do this interview with you, was to say the most important thing you can do is learn the three gears.

Anita Brick: And it's interesting because our audience, or people listening to this right now, could …. or when they download it, could be listening from virtually anywhere in the world and their home country could be virtually anywhere in the world. And so it's … people are coming at it in different ways. And the … by the way, the link for the download for the—it's very nice of you, thank you—for the entire book is on the website. So you'll see that after you listen to this podcast.

Susan Collins: Let me give you another reference point. I worked with business leaders in Haiti. Well, they were barely even able to master first gear. I mean, … an aluminum manufacturer was in tears with me, and he was saying, look, I can't make any money because the power won't stay on. I have to have infrastructure. I have to have a continuous flow of electricity, otherwise I can't do my manufacturing process.

And someone else was crying: But I have to have security. Every time I start to get my business going, somebody breaks in. Or they hold me for ransom. So first gear is something that has to be … Now let's talk about China, for example. I was very impressed with the progress that’s been made in China.

And it's important to understand the Communist Party there, because instead of being the old Communist Party, it's a whole entrepreneurial different thing. I mean, I had the women there sitting with me and the Communist men later saying to me, we want to know everything you can tell us. Don't hold back. And they mean it. They mean it, they really want to know, because they've got a huge country and a huge population, and they have to be able to make changes.

And to their credit, they're cleaning up the environment. Yes, big messes have been made, but they're beginning to clean it up. The infrastructure, the roads, because they are the Communist Party. And it's not a Congress that fights over appropriations and all of that. They can make the roads happen. They can make the subways or the bus system work.

You know, you have to have first gear in place. If you're looking to go someplace, make sure the legal structure is there. Make sure the banking structure is there—that you can transfer money, you know, make sure you're safe. These aren't … these first-gear needs must be in place before you can take yourself and your family there and profit.

And so many of those very loyal Haitians were saying to me, I think I have to leave my home country and go to the US, because I don't feel that my children are safe and the schools can't take care of them. So, you know, again, these gears and making sure that you're not … one of them, but that you use all of them regularly like a good driver is essential.

Anita Brick: All right. So taking this one step further, how do we now as leaders … I was talking to an alum last week who's had … his new job is in … he's going back and forth between Paris and Tel Aviv.

Susan Collins: Right.

Anita Brick: And so different cultures, I mean, they're very different cultures. How do you manage in three gears? Because let's say you're in gear three, you're solving problems that have never been solved before, but your team's not there. I mean, obviously you don't want to make them feel stupid. How do you manage in those three gears?

Susan Collins: Well, and that's it. That's why the book's called Shifting Gears.

Anita Brick: OK. Got it.

Susan Collins: It's up to you, as the leader, to one, recognize which gear that other person is in, and to shift your behavior so that you match their needs so that you can lead them up into that other gear. I mean, when I saw that they could not grasp my ideas about innovation, I had to take a break and stop and rethink: Oh, they're not where I thought they were. And, you know, go back and put in some exercises, some experiences for them that I didn't anticipate having to do. The burden of responsibility is on you as a leader to make sure you recognize the gear signals and you can make the shift. Otherwise there's no leadership. Otherwise, you know, there's anger, there's upset, and you get no place. So thanks for that question. It's a really important one.

Anita Brick: So how does someone kind of manage … and I hadn’t thought about this, so this is a little bit of an off-the-top-of-the-head question. But if you think … if we're thinking of career management, and we're thinking of managing a career globally and seeking opportunities, maybe with multinational organizations that are based anywhere in the world, how do you also manage the kind of career search or job search process in those gears? Because not everyone is ... I mean, the people whose attention you're seeking may need to be approached in a different way depending on where they are, which region they're in. I guess the question I'm asking …

Susan Collins: No, no, I understand your question. It's terrific. You know, when you're in an interview or you're looking to sell yourself up the way we were saying, you're looking to identify your niche and then show it to them. You've got to see which gear they're in. Are they looking for creativity and innovation, or are they looking for somebody who can produce results, and that's all? Are they looking for somebody with a new idea? Or are they looking for somebody who's just going to be part of an organization like a cog and just do what they're told? You know, you’ve got to decide, and you’ve got to decide whether what they're looking for is what you want. Don't just take a job—advance your career.

And you also, as a lot of these emails said, you also have to look at first gear in terms of your children. They need something very different than you do. You're looking at your career and your advancement. They're looking at their education, their safety, their friends, you know, how do they get along in the culture, a sense of belonging.

So you have to take this gear understanding with you in all of these situations, especially in an interview, you may … as with this woman that I was talking about, she had 10 interviews for this position. Well, every one of the people who interviewed her was in a slightly different place, gear wise, and she was able to assess where they were and able to respond to their questions and their perceived needs according to that. And they were all happy, but she couldn't give the same answer to everyone.

Anita Brick: Good point. One of the challenges that a number of people brought up in the questions that they sent, is about the reentry strategy. And I guess the two big questions that came around … number one, how do you perhaps manage the assignment to avoid some of the common pitfalls of of reentry?

Susan Collins: Well, I think reentry requires you to do kind of the same thing as entry. I mean, because [...] says you're going to do it again. Well, what we're saying is find your niche on the way back in. I think you have to find your niche again. Now, having been there, what new skills do you have now, having been there?

What more can you do for the company that you want to get into? You know, you have to sell yourself. We were very passive 10 years ago, but it's not the case anymore. We have to sell ourselves. We have to create the opportunities and sell that idea into the companies. The responsibility is more on us than we've ever known it to be.

And having worked with some of the great people on the planet, they always thought it was on them. But, you know, it's more that way than ever. So on the reentry, one of the pitfalls is to come back and just kind of put out your old resume and think that that's going to do it. No, you're going to have to put out a new resume.

You're going to have to propose some ideas to some people and sell them and get them to, as I say, co-dream with you and sell you into the company. So it's a very active three-gear process, going over and coming back. And you know, if you work for a multinational company, I think it's somewhat easier because you're already in the structure and you can sell it within the structure.

But I've also seen people come back and they open companies because they have networks now, and they have experiences now and they have input, opportunities now that they didn't have before. So get entrepreneurial. It's very, very important.

Anita Brick: So you're sort of giving a preview for our next issue of CareerCast that will be in May. But one of the issues that I've heard is that it's very easy to be forgotten, even in our very wired world today, it's easy to be forgotten. I mean, I've seen this happen with people where they move their office to a different floor.

Susan Collins: It's like a rock in a stream, you know? It's like it makes a ripple for a while and then the water just moves out. It's true. It's true here. It's true there. That's why I say it's an active process. You have to keep selling yourself. And, you know, as a consultant, I know too well I could go back to the companies I've worked the most for—American Express or Digital Equipment or IBM or CNN—and the people there now aren’t the people that were there a year ago or two years ago. This is just life today. It's fast.

Anita Brick: So how do you avoid being forgotten, and how do you stay cued in to the new people who are coming on board, who may be kind of eclipsing your old network?

Susan Collins: Keep building your relationships when you're abroad. Let people know what you're doing. Keep those emails going back and forth. Call people, stay in touch. You know, don't drop off the edge of the earth. When I'm in China, I'm still in touch with the people back here, emailing people that I know and saying, oh, I just saw something over here that might be of interest to you, or I just had an idea I thought you should be aware of, or I'm connecting you to somebody that I just met here.

You know, those things are so valuable because when you come back now, you've got people who see that you are a source of expertise that could be valuable, and it could be the next step with your career.

Anita Brick: Well, this is great. Anything that you would like to tell us that we haven't discussed so far?

Susan Collins: I would just say any experience globally, whether it turns out to be career advancement or … , it's worth doing because it enriches you; it allows you to see everything from a broader perspective. And, you know, when I went to China the first time, I really didn't know what I was getting into. But when I came back from China, I saw the US, and everything since, in a completely different way.

The same thing happened with India. You know, every place that I've gone and been more than a short period of time—where I've actually worked and I've been involved—have enriched my life and my family's.

Anita Brick: Great. Susan, thank you so much. I know you're incredibly busy, so thank you for taking the time to be with us today. And thank you all for listening. If you want, Susan had mentioned that Shifting Gears, which of course, it’s a paperback … Susan very generously put it on her website. You can download the entire book as a PDF and it will be on the link.

But if you're really excited, you can go to TechnologyOfSuccess.com and download it from there. It will also be on the link in the resource page as well.

Susan Collins: And Amazon has the book.

Anita Brick: There you go. Thank you all for listening. This is Anita Brick with CareerCast at the Chicago Connection. Keep advancing.