How To Plan And Manage A Successful Career

Anita Brick: Hi, this is Anita Brick, and welcome to CareerCast at the Chicago GSB to help you advance in your career. Today we're really excited to have the coauthors of For Executives Only: Applying Business Techniques to Your Job Search. And we have Hélène Seiler and Bill Belknap. And Hélène has over 20 years of experience in international consulting and human resource management.

She holds a master of management science from HEC School of Management and is an adjunct coach for the Center for Creative Leadership. Bill has over 30 years of senior management and human resource experience, with more than 10 at the VP level. He has headed the human resource function for fast-paced corporations in a variety of industries, including high tech, medical cost containment, consumer products, office products, and financial information.

So welcome to both of you. This is a first for us. We haven't had two speakers on at the same time, so this should be great.

Bill Belknap: Good.

Anita Brick: So, welcome. You know, everybody wants to know how to find a job, whether they're unemployed and they want to find a new job, whether they're doing great and they want to accelerate to the next level.

What do you think are the key steps of a comprehensive and candid assessment and search?

Hélène Seiler: All right. So I'll take that one.

Anita Brick: OK.

Hélène Seiler: And you did the right thing, Anita, by pointing out, you know, the face of assessment. Assessment is really the first thing one ought to do. And sometimes we are, you know, in a hurry; we could get this call from headhunters, or we could get, you know, these great meetings on campuses. And these companies are eager to hire us, but I think we always need to spend time stepping back, reflecting on our skill set, what it is that we really bring to the picture and where it is we want to go.

And this is really how we define assessment. This two tiered approach of looking at who we are and where we want to go. And so—I think I'll give you a little bit of details there. And then I’ll let Bill talk a little bit more about what happens, you know, once you know what to do. Because there are definitely two distinct parts.

And so, I like to take the metaphor of the hike. I love to climb mountains and usually start somewhere and look at several possible summits and try to find your way up. So it's really important to define where you're starting from. And we have … when Bill and I wrote our book, we used the Five O'Clock Club methodology, which is a methodology where you really look at your past. What have you done, what has made you successful? And there's a great exercise called the Seven Story Exercise.

Anita Brick: Oh, yeah. That's a great exercise.

Hélène Seiler: That's a great exercise. I mean, it's an exercise where you’re looking to not only your professional life but also your campus life. And even you may want to look at things you did before—you know, community work. And you start by identifying 25 instances in your life when you've been really fulfilled and successful, and when you also have made people around you fulfilled and successful.

And you look at these 25 stories and you pick the seven ones that are the most important; that make the most sense. And out of these stories, you dig skills, you dig values. And they're kind of the core of who you are. And that definitely helps, you know, in thinking of, OK, where it is that I can apply these strengths and these values of best? What kind of environment is going to enable me to thrive?

If you are somebody who enjoys working on your own, you're an independent thinker, you like to take risks, probably you want to look at entrepreneurship. You know, you want to look at places where you can work independently, and have these crazy ideas and go for them.

But if, on the contrary, you really enjoy working with a team—you've been most fulfilled as a mediator or a team contributor, for example, you may want to look at HR. You know, this is really a first start for you to book. And in that assessment phase, we also greatly encourage our clients to look outside.

It's not only introspection. You really need to reach out. And I always have this great story, and it's about somebody who is more qualified. He was in his late 40s and went through the exercise of assessment. He was really—he had been a lawyer, and he was really looking for a different career. And so I said to him, you ought to talk first to your family members.

And he says, well, even my aunt, who is, you know, late 70s? And I say, yes, of course you ought to do that. So he talks to her and she says … I'll just pretend his name … Michael, you ought to be a doctor. You know, the guy's 45 years old. He's a lawyer. I mean, there's no way he's going to go back to medical school, and he gets back to me and says, your exercise is ridiculous. She came back to me and said I ought to be a doctor. I said, call her back and ask her why? Because we don't care about the labels. We want to know why she sees you as a doctor.

So he calls her back and she says, well, the reason I see you as a doctor is because, you know, you are always eager to help others. You want people to improve. You really care about people one at a time. So this was very telling for him. And so that, you know, what we ask our clients to do is you reach out to your friends, your family, students, you know, if you're a student, other students and former colleagues and former bosses and ask them, you know, what do you see me doing?

So this is also part of the assessment. Now of course, in that stage, we'd like our clients to go back to some of the assessments they've done at work. For example, if they've done 360s, if they've done assessments … such as the Myers-Briggs, for example, or if they want to take some, because that usually helps understand your preferences.

And again define what type of environment is going to work. So from this and other things—such as exploring some possible jobs, doing reality checks with people who are working—helps really define that: Where is it that I'm starting? Where is it that I want to go, and what's the path?

Because you may not be immediately able to get where you want. So that's kind of the, you know, the assessment which we believe is really important. Now I'm going to pass on the baton to kind of give you some sense of what happens once you know what you want to do.

Anita Brick: OK. So before we jump in there, I'd like to just ask a quick follow-on question. Because people listening to this podcast may be 20-something, or they might be 60-something.

Hélène Seiler: Yeah.

Anita Brick: Does the assessment change, or does the process change for someone who is in an early stage of their career versus a more seasoned professional at a later stage of his or her career?

Hélène Seiler: No, it doesn't. Really, it's exactly the same process. It actually will be a little bit more difficult with people who are older in their careers, because they're just not used to reaching out. Whereas when Bill and I work with students, that happens to us sometimes. Not that often, but it happens to us. They are really in that mode of reaching out, and they are the most creative also, in terms of identifying people they can talk to.

So it's the same process. It’s just amazingly much easier, and sometimes we go in more depth with younger people because they're just more ready to do it, you know?

Anita Brick: And then one other, one other aspect of that, because our audience is pretty global. What does a person need to assess if they want to join a company that is multiregional and where their career might be multiregional?

Hélène Seiler: Yeah, there needs to be—I think that's a very, very good question. There needs to be a cultural understanding of what are the differences in the way people apply this strength in different countries. And what I typically advise my clients to do is, when you reach out to people, you may want to dry run your choices, your positioning, what you found about yourself, what your strengths are, and how you think they could be applied with some people who have worked abroad. And it's very easy, you know, in a campus setting. I mean, you see more and more universities now are global. You have people, students coming from all over the world. And when we deal with more experienced people, again, I mean, you find that a lot of coworkers come from different countries.

And so, for example, if she was thinking of, say, continuing your career in Asia, it would be interesting to talk with some people who come from Japan, China, and some of the key countries and say, well, let me share with you what my thoughts are about my strengths and where I want to be. And why am I interested in your geographical areas or to work with people from your country. And then you'll just hear them give you feedback and say, oh, you know, that that's interesting.

You know, for example, you tell me you are blunt; you like to go straight to the point. You like speed. Well, you know, if you work in a French environment, you know, you may want to try and see how you can deal with more context, how you would be more comfortable, you know, taking more time because typically the French would like to take time to talk a lot about things that are not relevant immediately to the topic.

You know, do you feel comfortable doing this? And then they will tell you, well, not really. So they say, well, maybe you want to look at other countries. Maybe you want to look at countries like the Netherlands or the UK where it's going to be easier for you to express yourself the way you are, you know, and to express your strengths and have them recognized. Does that answer your question?

Anita Brick: No, it definitely does. And I think that as a follow-on to that, we did a CareerCast issue in April of 2007, which went into depth, a lot of this, and actually had some examples from alumni about making some of those decisions. So people listening to this podcast may want to explore that as well. So that's really great.

No, but you did, because without that you might have a wonderful skill set match and lack the fit and not succeed. Not because of your skills but because of the fit.

Bill Belknap: Yeah. Because of the culture.

Anita Brick: Now Bill, I know that there's a Part 2. So why don't you tell us a little bit about Part 2?

Bill Belknap: The second part when people are looking, once they've done the assessment—and I love Hélène’s climbing, because when you pick … the summit equals your targets. You know, what summits are you going to climb? And you need to find out about those summits because are you going to need ropes? Can you do it through the trails? You know, all the investigative part of saying, OK, what is this company?

And I'm just going to pick Novartis. What are they like to work for? In the whole targeting part, there's a counterintuitive piece here is that we don't want to use the job word, because to do the research appropriately to see if the environment is right and all the other things is really doing your due diligence on what is this company all about.

And by the way, I use Novartis because I'm getting ready for a talk tomorrow night with the financial executives in northern New Jersey. And I went to the Novartis site, and some of these international sites are just incredible. They actually have a page that talks about what their leadership standards are, and they have another page that talks about what their values and expected behaviors are.

Well, my gosh, can you imagine seeing that and now saying, well, how does that fit me? I just … powerful, powerful things that are available today to people that are going on the market that were not available to my vintage.

Anita Brick: And where would someone typically find that kind of information? Because I hear from students and alumni that we work with that that information is still pretty hard to find. What would you suggest?

Bill Belknap: Look, you said this is going to be fun—those people that tell you it's hard to find? You've got a remedial problem.

Anita Brick: OK, well, tell us more.

Bill Belknap: It’s called the internet!

Anita Brick: There you go.

Bill Belknap: That's scary that they would say that. And so with good old Google or whoever your favorite search engine is, as well as just typing in … The beauty of all these contemporary search engines—and I'll stick with Google because it's probably the most talked about—is you just type in Novartis and up pops the website, and you click on the website and it takes you right to the corporate website, which—by the way, the other thing that can be very, very helpful to your people is that in the job, the open positions—now, while I'm saying, you know, let's not get too focused on jobs—some of the companies, like Novartis and others have very detailed job descriptions for their open positions. Well, if you print out two or three job descriptions, you will begin to see some themes of what this company really looks for. So another very interesting tip.

And of course, there's always the latest financial news. There's the latest product news. It just is a wonderful place to start. The other thing I would suggest they do is—let's say they have targeted … first, people generally target an area, like they might say healthcare or financial services. The power of Google is you can talk to Google as you would a friend.

So you can actually type in what are the best healthcare employers and who are the best healthcare employers in Chicago. Hit return, and up come just wonderful information on healthcare in Chicago, or healthcare in Boston, or healthcare in Brussels, or healthcare in London. It is the single most valuable research tool you can have at your disposal.

Anita Brick: And it's good. And our students and alumni have a lot of proprietary databases that they can access too, which gives them another level of depth.

Bill Belknap: Wonderful.

Anita Brick: Which is great. So now we've done the assessment. We've done the research. Are you looking at it mostly as secondary research, or is networking part of that too?

Bill Belknap: Well that's a great question. First it's hey, I've always had my eye on Novartis after you've done your seven stories, or you're in the pharma industry and you want to learn more about Novartis or whatever the company is. That's the step.

And then the second step is to, what I call, send the blast email. And the blast email, for those that use Outlook, is putting all of your address book into the blind, the BCC box. Because when you then receive the email, it doesn't look like … you don't want to see 100 email addresses there, which is a turnoff to people. And you asked a simple question: does anybody know anybody that works at Novartis?

And I will guarantee you, when you send a blast email, you will get things back like, Oh Bill, I can't believe you sent me this email. My aunt works at Novartis.

Anita Brick: Oh wow. And then how do you avoid that, because when you have a big number in BCC, it can often go to spam. Is there anything that you would recommend?

Bill Belknap: If you're doing it to corp … Yes, that's a risk, and if … you can pass your mail or … in fact, that's a very good point. If a lot of your network is working for big companies and you're going to be sending this to them at their company address, then I would take the time to send it individually.

Anita Brick: Like mail merge or something.

Bill Belknap: Absolutely, because you're correct. It will get knocked out today with some of those firewalls.

Anita Brick: OK. So now you've had that initial contact, and you've had that initial networking interaction. And I know a lot of people are very good at the initial one. And then what happens is that it breaks down after that. They are able to … someone will say, well, send me your resume, and they send it on to someone.

Bill Belknap: May I just stop you right there? That's because they get into the “job” word. OK, so you can't say … no, I'm not looking for a job right now. I'm looking for, I'm doing a little self-assessment and some career planning. And so I'm looking down the road…. No, I'm not shopping for jobs right now because as soon as you say that, people get into, well, send me your resume, I'll forward it to HR.

Well, now you're back into the job mode versus hey, Janet, tell me what it's like to work at Novartis. I'm really just wanting to find out about the culture because I might find out that there isn't a fit. So could we talk just for a minute about the culture at Novartis? So that's what we're trying to find out.

Because the other thing for those that are searching for a job, they will often tell me, but Bill, I am looking for a job. I say, yes, but if you're doing a good job in this networking call, if they have an opening, are they not going to bring it up? Right?

Anita Brick: Right. Well, and I think that's great. So how do you then take the next step? Because ultimately you are doing all this research to find the next position. How do you then make the transition from information gathering to full-fledged job search?

Bill Belknap: OK. Well, let's say you—let's stay with our Novartis example, and you say, I really like what I see. I've talked to a couple people that work there. Now it's going to do a couple of things. One, it's trying to get face to face with some decision-makers. And second is, on a regular basis, check the Novartis openings that fit your background.

So now you've made a nice connection with Janet at Novartis. And you can now come back to a week later and say, hey, Janet, I was just checking out your site and they've got a job on there that looks to be perfect for me. Do you know anything about it? It's very often Janet will say, not only do I know something about it, I know the hiring manager. Bingo.

Anita Brick: Bingo. There you go.

Bill Belknap: And you triangulate. You still have to go through HR and do all the bureaucratic things, but now you've got Jim. Gee, Jan, is there any chance you could introduce me to the hiring manager just to talk informally on the phone?

Anita Brick: It's a good point. Is there a way of identifying whether companies have a referral policy? Because I know that some companies have a referral policy where I refer you and you get the job and I get a referral fee. Is there any way of identifying that?

Bill Belknap: By asking an employee.

Anita Brick: OK, that’s a good point. OK.

Bill Belknap: Yeah. No. In some like Cisco, they're very—in fact, Cisco's probably got the highest referral ratio of any company in the US. It's … over 70 percent of the hires at Cisco come through referrals.

Anita Brick: Wow. Any other companies like that that come to mind?

Bill Belknap: High ones would be Xerox. You know, some of the great names, the Hewlett Packard, Goldman Sachs on the financial-services side.

Hélène Seiler: Most consulting firms, Anita, will have that as well.

Anita Brick: Good, good. Anything else, Bill, that you'd like to add in terms of the search process?

Bill Belknap: Well, not on the targeting. I think that, and again, put in a little pitch for not only our book, but the Five O’Clock Club books. There's great info on just how about going about this? We're handling it kind of at the 10,000-foot level. It's a lot of work to do research. Well, but again, going back to this wonderful analogy of hiking, if you're going to hike, you know, a serious mountain, you're going to do a lot of work in terms of what equipment do I need, how prepared, how physically demanding is it?

Anita Brick: Right, right.

Bill Belknap: It's a beautiful analogy for the kind of work that isn't quite as physical, but is going to take the same kind of time and thought process.

Anita Brick: That's a good point. So now if we … So now let's say you get to the stage where you've made that contact. You have an initial, often phone, assessment. Can one or both of you talk about what people should look at when they're assessing themselves, in terms of to match it up with how companies assess candidates?

Hélène Seiler: Great. That's a very good question. We say with Bill that when you do an interview, say you're interviewing with someone face to face or on the phone, you're doing only 20 percent of the work. The 80 percent is about the follow-up, and the follow-up is just about finding out, you know, how the perception that you have about your strengths matches with the perception they have about your your strengths—i.e., you know, how do they assess candidates?

So there's part of it that you can find out during the interview. You know, if you have a company that repeatedly asks you, for an experienced person, you know, how many times have you laid off people, how many people have you laid off? You're like, gosh, you know, it looks like this is a big part of the job, so you start to understand what they're looking for, or they keep bringing up team work or … you know, the questions they ask are usually a good indicator.

But then, as you wrap up and they tell you, well, we'll get back to you, just don't follow up the day after and say thank you, I enjoyed meeting with you, I'm looking forward to hearing from you. This is almost useless. I mean, if you don't do it, you'll be considered as an impolite person.

But if you do it, you'll just be thrown back in the big bucket of candidates. You really want to build a strategy—an influencing strategy. And first of all, you know, you want to find out and say, well, you know, I enjoy meeting with you. Here are some of the things I learned. Here are some of the things I learned about myself.

You know about my strengths by talking to you. And I was wondering, you know, what is your perspective on that? And especially, you know, as you are seeing other candidates, what else would you like to know about me? And this is especially valid if they are telling you you're one of the first ones in the process, because it's not typically a good position to be in.

So you will let a few days pass and say, well, you know, I assume you've been seeing other candidates and probably as you were interviewing other people, other questions came up. And that is really important to keep yourself in the loop. Another thing that you may want to do is especially as you are still in touch, to get back to that Janet at Novartis, you know, give a call to Janet and say, you know, do you mind if I give you some feedback about how the interview went?

I mean, if you were in my shoes, what would you do? Or what do you think? Trying to get Janet to inform the hiring manager and say, oh, gosh, you know, I got this call from Tom. My goodness, he's so committed. You know, he called me back and asked, how do I think it went?

So you really want to spend … if you spend 20 percent of your effort being really good during the interview, you want to spend the remaining 80 percent on being really good at influencing the person and actually being proactive and saying, I'd love to go back. I realize that I haven't really had the time to develop, you know, my answers about such-and-such a question. I'd love to go back and talk to you.

So really trying to push for that next interview. You're not pushing for the job. You don't want to be too soon and say, you know, would I be good at the job? You want to say, I want to meet with more people. I want to learn more. You told me this and that. And then we had to part because you had to see another candidate or you had to go to another meeting, but I really want to learn more. So that's the way you want to approach the next phases of the interview process.

Anita Brick: Now, in terms of the way someone would be assessed by the company and even the follow-on, the follow-up, what are some regional differences, say, between Asia, Europe, Africa, the Americas? Are there any differences that people should keep in mind?

Hélène Seiler: Yes, there are. And again, it's going to depend. I mean you should … Dealing with global companies, I've done a lot of work in consulting. And I'm sure that's a topic that a lot of your students are interested in. And it's also to some extent valid in investment banking. Their recruiting processes are pretty much global now. I mean, they're consistent—people who are interviewing, they've usually gone to training.

So I'd be surprised if there were big differences between, say, you're interviewing at McKinsey in Singapore, Frankfurt, or Chicago, it's very likely you're going to have the same process. But now if we're talking about more, you know, local companies or even global companies, but where the management tends to be, in majority, not local, there are differences.

And again, I want to point out the fact that Asian cultures, European cultures are more context oriented, which means they're going to want to learn a lot about you as a person and where do you come from, typically. And that could be a shock for some American students. An interview might start with, oh, I'm reading your name, and I'm not quite sure where it comes from. You know, it could be, you know, perceived as …

Bill Belknap: They’re really asking all the illegal questions you can’t ask here.

Hélène Seiler: They do, and so you have to be ready to say, well, my family actually comes from North Africa. We were Jewish. My parents had to flee North Africa in the ’60s. And you have to go through that because that's going to establish rapport and somebody will tell you, oh my God, I'm in the same shoes.

You know, my family also … But we were not in Algeria. We were in Morocco. That's the way they want to build the relationship. So if you want to go … in Asia, there's going to be a lot of talk, a lot of what might be perceived as unnecessary talk about. .. Oh, I'm so pleased, I'm so honored. You know, we're so honored you're spending time with us, and I want to talk to you about our company. You're like, gosh, I already know these things, but you have to, you know, bear with them. That's the way they get the motor started, the engine started. And in South America, for example, you want to expect them to be late. They will be late, and they will be very late.

Anita Brick: Really?

Hélène Seiler: But it's perfectly acceptable. Yeah. They could be an hour late.

Bill Belknap: A day late.

Hélène Seiler: Yeah. It's not a day late. But you know, they want to be late because it's just part of the … And they're not testing your nerves. They just want to tell you, gosh, let's take it easy. You know, let's take our time. But they are very sharp. So at the same time you want to be very cautious, because they're going to ask you this one question.

And everybody … it's like you have a margarita in hand and everything is cozy. But no, they're assessing you. And if you have the wrong answer, you know, then they may become very blunt and say, you know what? What are you talking about? So you ought to be very conscious of the companies’ cultural approach.

But again, that is only valid if you're interviewing, say, with an industrial company in Mexico where the management is Mexican, but if you interview Boston Consulting Group, the Mexico office, they're going to be just like the Boston office of the Boston Consulting Group.

Bill Belknap: You know, a little thing … some more on the culture in South America, because I worked for a Cuban, a very successful Cuban company. What they—a couple of tips—when I said a day late, what will happen is you'll go in and they'll keep postponing it and they'll say, you know what? We aren't going to be able to do it today. Can we do it tomorrow?

The other thing is, a tip to know how you're doing with an Asian or South American company is if you get invited to dinner, you're in the final round and they'll probably want your spouse to join you right now.

Anita Brick: That's really good. It's, you know, some of the comments that you made in terms of the shrinking of differences, is that also true with experienced hires? Because I would say a fair number of people who are listening to this podcast may have more than 10 or 15 years of experience and think, you know, of course, there are students who … and they’re Executive Program students who have 10-plus and … but then there are alumni too. Is it different in the experienced, higher track?

Hélène Seiler: Well, you know, you want to check it out. I mean, again, if you talk about companies that are fairly global in their recruiting approach, it's going to be the same. But, you know, the best thing to do? Google the person who is going to interview you.

Anita Brick: Right.

Hélène Seiler: Find out. And have they worked abroad? Because if these people … they were born somewhere, worked in 20 different places, chances are that they're going to be very global in their approach. But if you're interviewing with an Argentinian firm and it's the son of the company owner, and he's never left Argentina, you’d better be well versed in Argentinian culture, and now you can Google anybody. I mean, it's amazing how much you can learn about people—good or bad, by the way.

Anita Brick: True, no, that's very, very true. And I think another resource that alumni need … to contact the Career Resource Center that's in the region or the one at the Gleacher Center in Chicago—and students can do this remotely—is to look at One Source, because One Source has biographies of a lot of executives, and you can get a feel for at least the senior team and where they come from, what their career progression has been from, what functions and what regions they worked in, and so on.

And that again, I think, yeah, that's a … Bill Belknap: Building on that, a couple things in terms of this clever research. Also the alumni office, what you do is you go in and say, I want every University of Chicago graduate that works at Novartis.

Anita Brick: You know what? They can … it's all electronic. So it's all web based. So students have their ID and password, and it will do it all for them.

Bill Belknap: Let me give you an astounding statistic, and I work regularly with ExecuNet. And I had Dave Upton, the CEO of ExecuNet, do a survey of all the executives in transition. Only 30 percent went back to their alumni offices.

Anita Brick: Wow. Well, actually they don't even need to come see me in my office.

Bill Belknap: I put “alumni office” in quotes.

Anita Brick: Oh, OK. Got it.

Bill Belknap: Their relationship databases, they're all electronic.

Anita Brick: Yeah, it's good.

Bill Belknap: Another little tip is—and still today I'm amazed that some of the young people aren't as internet savvy as I would think they'd be. ZoomInfo has over 35 million profiles right now.

Anita Brick: Great. That's a great resource. And you know, I … one little pitch here. For those of you who are listening to this podcast, it would be great if you go into the community directory and make sure your information is accurate. And that can certainly help as well.

Bill Belknap: Excellent. Yes.

Anita Brick: What about things like LinkedIn? I know people like them, some people don't like them. What about those?

Bill Belknap: LinkedIn has gained a lot of momentum. And where—I have a couple of clients who have used the person-who-knows-somebody approach. And has had almost 100 percent hit rates. So use us as an example. I go in, I see Hélène knows someone at Novartis. I email Hélène and say, would you introduce me to your contact at Novartis? And my clients have had just tremendous success with that.

Hélène Seiler: Good, good. Yeah. They're seeing a need out is, more and more schools are building, you know, mini networks within LinkedIn, more and more alumni. So, for example, you know, my alumni association, from HEC School of Management, we have our own group. So it's easier to connect. And so it kind of, you know, duplicates in a sense, the alumni directory.

But it's another way of tracking down their network. It's usually easier. So for example, if I see that there's another HEC graduate who is currently on LinkedIn and one of his contacts is a Novartis contact, I can say, well, you know, I happen to be on that alumni as well group, and it it gives you a chance to connect, you know, with more people, because the minute you click on that, mini network, you get access to everybody who belongs to that network.

Anita Brick: That's a good point.

Hélène Seiler: So I mean, I'm sure you have this or you're investigating this for your school because it opens up, you know, more doors. At the same time, I want to put a caution on LinkedIn because, you know, now everybody tends to be on LinkedIn. So some people, you know, get answers. But some people, especially when they are at very visible companies, tend to get a little tired of constantly getting some requests of being connected.

So sometimes, you know, you want to use this also almost as a research tool and don't necessarily expect that people are going to get back to you because it's getting harder and harder. You know, I don't know how many million people are there, but it's getting to be a big machine.

Bill Belknap: Absolutely right. The key is when I use that triangle, that referral one, the key is kind of contacting and emailing someone you know to get to someone you don't know, right. Because then they're much more receptive. But if someone says, who's Bill Belknap? The chance they're just getting inundated.

Anita Brick: True. No, it's a good point. So one of the ways to make yourself visible, obviously, is networking. And that's a very powerful one, because ultimately people hire people they like. And having that third-party endorsement and all of that helps a great deal. What are some other ways that a person could make themselves visible to their target companies?

Hélène Seiler: Well, I have—Bill and I actually attended a conference a few weeks ago. We're part of a career coach networking group, and this woman was—a topic was dealing with your digital dirt. And, in fact, what she was talking about is that now, 75 percent of recruiters, when they hear about somebody, they Google that person in order to find out, you know, what's on them, on the internet.

So you want to make yourself visible. You really want to have a proactive approach about what's going to appear when people Google your name. For example, say there is a referral program at Novartis. And you know, Janet comes to the hiring manager and says, well, you know, Bill Belknap shows interest and and, you know, I'd like to refer him for the position of CFO for such-and-such business unit.

Well, the first thing the person in charge of that recruitment in HR is going to do is 75 percent of the time—or if they work with a recruiter, they're going to ask them to Google Bill's name. So you want to control that. And you want to make sure that when you Google yourself, or you're going to be on ZoomInfo, you're going to be featured … We advise now a lot of people to create their portfolio on the web, you know, just so at least your name shows up and there's a link to your portfolio so that they can see your resume online, some of the accomplishments, some testimonials … if you’re on LinkedIn, your link to LinkedIn is going to be shown as well.

So be careful. You know, if you're chatting online, for example, and may say some, you know, very familiar comments to somebody online, well, you don't want to do this anymore because that's going to show up. But, you know, if you're active in a charity, for example, and you've been on the board and, you know, helping some charity, that's going to show up and that's a good thing.

So you want to make sure that you Google yourself, you know, at least, I mean, maybe I'm going to make you afraid. But once a week because things go very fast. And so all you need to do is update your portfolio. For example, ask the webmaster of the charity. Do you say, well, could you please change, you know, my picture on there or whatever? Do something to update because then the search engine is going to pick up on it and it's going to be brought back to the top.

Anita Brick: So how might this—OK, so that's—so your online presence is certainly one thing. And it's just basically with data. Is there anything else?

Bill Belknap: Yes. One of the things that we've had great success with, with the Five O'Clock Club process, is called direct contact. And that means not through a network referral—that Bill's suggested I contact you—but let's say—again, we'll pick on Novartis, and you're in finance. You get the name of the CFO, you do a little research on him or her, and then you send a very compelling letter why you're interested in exploring the finance organization at Novartis.

And you go direct to the decision-maker.

Anita Brick: How do you find the person who is the hiring manager?

Bill Belknap: Well, again, it would be through networking or make a phone call; do what the old executive search people do when they call and say, Is Bob Smith still the CFO of the ABC Division? And the receptionist will say, no, it's not, it's Bill Belknap. Bingo. You got the name.

Anita Brick: Got it. OK, good. So OK, so networking, of course, is very powerful; online presence; doing some direct mail; and you're suggesting letter but no resume. Correct?

Bill Belknap: Well it's … we have a very … the founder of the Five O'Clock Club, Kate Wendleton, has a very pragmatic answer to that. If it helps your case. But if you've got a compelling letter where you don't at this stage need your resume, then there's really no need to. Because remember, when you … as soon as you include the resume, that screams, I'm looking for a job.

Anita Brick: Yeah, absolutely. And are you suggesting email copies of this? Are you suggesting hard copies of this?

Bill Belknap: Well, this is an interesting thing. Most today is email. But we're getting—particularly at the executive level—and think about this personally. When's the last time at home or even at the office, you got a handwritten note? I mean, it jumps out now, doesn't it?

Anita Brick: Oh, absolutely.

Bill Belknap: And you just go, I wonder who this is. You know. And so we say, don't be afraid, as long as your handwriting is very legible, to write a personal note, OK. Because it'll be a novelty to the support person that works for them. And they're likely to say, oh, look at this letter, a handwritten letter, to your boss. You got to read this.

And that's just how the informal system works.

Anita Brick: What about other kinds of visibility? One of the things that sometimes we will recommend is that someone do some research and write an article. If they've done speaking in a particular area, maybe take that speech and make it into an article of some kind, and then …

Bill Belknap: Excellent recommendation.

Anita Brick: … and then post it somewhere.

Hélène Seiler: Yeah. And it should be part of your portfolio, you know, if you have a web presence, you definitely want to put copies of your speeches. Always reach out. And there's always ways you can participate in a conference. You can, you know, write an article and submit it to, for example, your alumni association newsletter. Or, you know, if you’re experienced, you want to be on the … a member of your professional association, if not on the board.

You want to be visible in your professional associations. And we say that—Bill and I say that even to our clients who are doing well in their job and don't even think about changing. This presence, you know, this outside presence being visible, giving you time, mentoring some people, you know, within your organization … for example, launching a group. I have … My next-door neighbor is a very successful executive at PepsiCo.

She comes from Venezuela. She launched the women, the Latino Women networking group, and it is very successful. She's the president of it. She got visibility. And if you think about it, we all have something that we can start. I mean, I have another client. I was brainstorming; we decided to start a soccer team in his company, you know, and now they're playing against other teams, and that gives him presence and visibility.

It's not directly related to work, but it makes him visible. And who knows who is going to be on that soccer team?

Anita Brick: You know, good point. Very, very good point.

Bill Belknap: Also—and this is—very few people do this, but when they do it and they do it well, it gets amazing results—is actually do something for the company. Give you a couple examples. One of my clients, in fact, he did it … he had this—I don't know where he learned this, because he had the savvy when he graduated from college. He went with some Federal Reserve banks, and he wrote a paper on his analysis of some particular niche within the Federal Reserve System and sent the analysis to five Federal Reserve banks. With no resume. He within two weeks got an offer.

Anita Brick: Yeah, that's a great idea.

Bill Belknap: I mean, if you can do that … or a writer that says, gee, I just noticed you launched, you know, the new Pepsi Lime. And I'm very good at writing press releases. In fact, if I had been with you, here's an example of how I'd have written the press release. Well, they get to see your actual work.

Anita Brick: Right. And that's a great …

Bill Belknap: Particularly that's good because they go, wow, this is a great release.

Anita Brick: Right. You want to make sure that it's good and that it's perfect. I mean that there ... Yes. Yeah. Everything is perfect.

Bill Belknap: Yeah. Yeah.

Anita Brick: Well one of the things, for those of you listening, I know Hélène, you mentioned professional portfolios. If someone wants some guidelines, there was a very interesting podcast with actually some handouts that you can use to structure your portfolio in the November 2006 CareerCast on crafting your story. And I think it's a very good idea because it does … it helps you, when you need those things, to have them all in one place.

Bill Belknap: Yes.

Anita Brick: I really appreciate your time. And I know we're sort of running out of time, but I wanted to ask each of you one final question. And that would be, what are your top three recommendations that you think are essential in a successful search?

Bill Belknap: Well, I think we've actually … we covered them. I mean, but I would say it is first the assessment; second, really making sure you have the right targets. And of course it's the whole interview preparation, and as Hélène so well pointed out, the importance of follow-up.

Hélène Seiler: And I also want to point to the behaviors you need to have during the job search. The first one is really curiosity. So it's kind of … in the assessment phase, you know, almost get back in touch with your inner child. Be curious; be open. The other behavior is as you are seeking help, don't forget to help others because it's a process where you want people to give you and you also want to give people.

So keep that giving spirit, you know, especially if you … we have some audience here who is in between jobs, you know, you have more time. So it's really the time where you want to give. And the last character trait that I think you need to display is persistence. You need to be patient. You need to be persistent.

Never lose sight of your goals. You know, that's what Bill said. Assessment is so important because assessment gives you the goal. So you will … what you almost want to look at your plan every day. You know, we even call it a marketing plan. You want to look at it every day and say, yes, that's what I'm here for.

And it might take, you know, several weeks or it might take several months, but this is really what I want. And I'm going to get there. And so just keeping that spirit of persistence.

Anita Brick: Well, that's great. Thank you both so much. This was …

Bill Belknap: Well, thank you, Anita, these were great questions! I hope it was … it's going to be helpful for the audience.

Anita Brick: Well, I'm sure that it will, and I think one of the things I would recommend to those of you who are listening is that there is a chapter of Bill and Hélène's book—For Executives Only: Applying Business Techniques to Your Job Search—up on the site, and you can download that and read that.

I think that would be helpful as well. In addition, I wanted to give you each of their websites, and Hélène's website is www.CareerTrackers.com. And Bill, you said it was very complex but he was just kidding. It is his name. So it's BillBelknap.com.

Thank you both very much again. And thank you all for listening. This is Anita Brick with CareerCast at the Chicago GSB. Keep advancing.