Be Your Best Brand

Anita Brick: Hi, this is Anita Brick, and welcome to CareerCast at Chicago Booth. To help you advance in your career. Today, we're delighted to be speaking with Joe Calloway. Joe has been a business author, coach, and speaker for 30 years, and his clients include companies like Coca-Cola, IBM, Saks Fifth Avenue, and American Express. He's the author of many books, including Becoming a Category of One, which is when you and I met the first time and his recent book, Be the Best at What Matters Most: The Only Strategy You Will Ever Need.

Joe has presented at Business conferences in countries around the globe, including Italy, Sweden, South Africa, England, Canada, Mexico and throughout the Caribbean. Joe, thanks so much for making the time. I know that you're super, super busy, so thanks for having this call with us.

Joe Calloway: Well, listen, it's a pleasure. And I mean, this is fun for me. I like talking with you. I did all those years ago. I did it, and I'm really looking forward to today. And I just appreciate the opportunity.

Anita Brick: I love the new book, which I stumbled upon. Actually, someone was feverishly reading it on the bus one day, and I was waiting for her to close the book so I could see what it was and share it with you. So I'm glad that we were able to reconnect.

Joe Calloway: I'm thankful for that person on the bus.

Anita Brick: Yeah. Me too. First of all, you talk about being a category of one and being the best brand. What does it actually mean to be your best brand?

Joe Calloway: Whether you or a company? I mean, whether you are sexy to have Coca-Cola or whether you are an individual, maybe an entrepreneur with your own business or maybe an employee in the company. Do you have a brand? And the purpose of the brand, to me, is fundamentally different. What is the perception of my market that's just as legitimate?

If you are an employee in the company and you're wanting to progress in your career within that company or within that professional industry, how did the people who can help you advance in your career, how did they perceive? Just a fundamental that we've got to understand is that I don't own my brand. My brand resides in the minds of the people who hire me.

In that case, it's their perception of what it's like to do business with me. It's their perception of what my strengths are and just as legitimately what my weaknesses are, what I don't do. Well, ultimately, your brand is how you can escape the commodity trap. In other words, there's 50 of us applying for the same job. How do I separate myself from the pack? Or there are ten of us, potentially up to that next promotion slot. How do I separate myself from the pack? So ultimately, brand is how you differentiate.

Anita Brick: You're absolutely right because there are many, many, many marketers. There are many, many, many people in technology and you can go on and on. So since we don't own our brand and when we need to own the perception of our brand clearly, but we don't own our brand, what are things that we should consider to enhance our positioning or branding?

Joe Calloway: Whether it's you're looking at it from a business standpoint or on a purely personal level, you know, there's an old formula that actually stands up pretty well. Is the three legged stool approach one what you love to do? Two then you combine that with what do you love to do that you're really good at? Do it. Cause there's some things that I may love to do and I'm not that great at it.

So what do you love to do that you're really good at doing? And then here's the key third element that there is a market for. On a personal level, it truly is a matter of leveraging your strengths, leveraging your strengths into something that you become known for, said X. If you look at it as a company level, Fedex is known for absolute consistency.

Dependability. Southwest Airlines is known for operational excellence, and they're also known for having fun. You have to be. I have to be brutally honest about myself. What can I become known for? That is really a strength. I've also got to be equally brutally honest about the weaknesses I have, and the things that people don't like. When you're building your brand, objectivity and absolute honesty is vitally important because we can kid ourselves into thinking we've got a brand and that's not our brand at all.

Anita Brick: Good point. There was an evening student who asked, I am a software architect, and I'm in high demand for the type of work I do. That said, I want to be in strategy consulting and I'm not sure how to create a personal brand that is attractive to consulting firms. Do I have to throw everything away and start over, or is there another way?

Joe Calloway: Thanks, Joe. That's a great question and there's no easy answer to that. But it starts here, which is to look creatively at your past work as a software architect and say, what are the transferable skills? And what we've got to do then is change our lens, change our perception of what we've always done. And instead of saying, I do this with software architecture, that got him to come to a much longer view of it and say, wait a second quarter.

The skills that I bring, what are the talents that operate? What are the strengths that I bring to doing these things? In the past, it had to do with software architecture, but that is transferable. That's something that companies are facing all the time. It's almost exactly what your student is asking, is it just for him. It's personal and for the business it's corporate.

But it's the same thing. You have to look at transferable skills. I think the other thing is what have you done or what can you do? And this is that observation is what you have done to develop new skills in terms of, you know, outside education, skills enhancement, leveraging what you already know that is transferable.

Anita Brick: And there was another question along those lines, and I think maybe you already answered it from an existing MBA student who said, hello, Joe. I had a clear brand within investment management. Yet with all the market contractions, I lost my job and I'm not sure how to leverage my skills, knowledge and experience into a new brand and a new career. Where would you suggest I start? Would it be the same advice or would it be different because that opportunity or the market for his skills has gone away?

Joe Calloway: I think I would certainly give the same advice. I'd add a couple of things to it. And you know what? I think there's going to be a lot of questions like this. And I want to ask everybody that's got a question. It's kind of in that same basket of, what do I do now and where do I go from here? I want to give them something to think about that they may not have thought of, or if they have, I want them to think about it a whole lot more.

And that's this. Who is my market? In other words, who are some potential employers that I would like to approach and then know more about that company, know more about that potential employer than they can imagine that, you know, in other words, if it gets to the point where you go into an interview, then and it's not that you're going to go in and start immediately talking about this, but you are going to look for ways to let them know that you understand who they are, their mission, their vision, their customers, what it is they are trying to achieve. You get them and that's you. That's one of the main ways that I get hired by companies. That's a big, big strength. Knowing so much about your potential employer, you could say, is your market. It can create a huge advantage for you.

Anita Brick: Makes perfect sense. Let's go inside the company for a moment. Let's look at the perspective from someone who is a current employee, and there are a few questions around that. Can't wait to hear what you have to say about them. Another executive MBA student said, Mr. Calloway, thank you for answering my question. How can I specifically use my personal brand when I'm approaching my manager for a promotion?

Joe Calloway: Okay, I think you have to then go through the process of what is my brand? Let me use me as an example, and then I'll make it really simple because I think about it in very simple terms. My brand is number one because I do really good work. That's got to be a given. I don't care what their job is.

You've got to start by doing really good work. I work very, very hard at doing really good work. I have a couple of things that are part of my brand: number one, absolute dependability. If I say that I or we will do something, then everybody knows that they can put it in the bank and throw away the key.

That will be another part of my brand is immediate response and getting things done very quickly. One of the things that I hear a lot is, well, we didn't expect you to get that information to us for a month and two days after the call. And it was all here. That's a very big part of the brand. And then the other one, and this is huge, easy to work with.

I mean, really, really easy to work with. If you take those attributes, then in terms of approaching your manager about a promotion, I think you have to be and make that factual and you have to quantify it to the greatest extent possible, like on dependability, if you're really good at meeting or beating deadlines, then make your case for that and take specific examples of projects that you've finished early.

If he's going out of your way to do extra work that helped the department, you know, or the division or whatever succeed on a particular project, for example, then document it and list those three or 4 or 50 projects where you went above and beyond and the things you're not bragging, you're bringing a set of facts, and you can say it in such a way that you're very proud of the work that you've done.

Here are some examples. And you say that these are the kinds of contributions that have earned you that contributed to that promotion. In all these cases, what we have to do is translate our brand and translate those accomplishments factually and in the way that it shows the benefit to the organization.

Anita Brick: Oh, no question to your point, if you have these qualities, they need to be not flash in the pan qualities. Oh, I do this for a month and then I do this for a month. But the consistency of that brand is also crucial for that credibility.

Joe Calloway: You're exactly right. You know what I said for years on that stick? That consistency of performance is the great brand builder. And that's true whether you are Coca-Cola or whether it's you or me or anybody else. There's got to be a pattern and what you can do in your quest for that promotion. What you're doing is you're reminding the company or your boss or your manager.

You're reminding them of that pattern, and you say, you know, I feel really good that I have done this over the last three years. And then you cite two specific examples to the extent possible. And so what you want to react to is, well, you know, she's right. She really has stepped up or she really has been consistent on meeting deadlines or whatever it is that you hit on a really vitally important point, which is it can't just be a couple of things. You have to have established a pattern.

Anita Brick: Absolutely. Someone else, actually an alum who's had a series of promotions but has now hit a little bit of a roadblock, said, I'm fortunate enough to have had increasing responsibility and promotion since I started my career. My goal is to break into the senior ranks, but I haven't been able to do that so far. What are things you've seen in the brands of people in very senior ranks that help them get there?

Joe Calloway: Well, a couple of things. One is and this is just a real, real people skills and relationships factor, people that break into the senior ranks. It's rare that they haven't had a mentor or certainly at least a really supportive relationship with somebody or somebody, a number of people. And obviously the more the better that are already in the senior ranks.

Not to say that it can't be done, certainly, but it really, really helps if you have a mentor, a more formal relationship would almost be a sponsor. There's somebody that's already there that is helping make the case that you should be there too. Part of it really is that relationship thing. The other thing I think that I've seen in common with people in senior ranks is initiative.

That's almost always one of the qualities they do what needs to be done without being asked, or they spot what needs to be done and do it without being asked. And one of the things I needed that I hear most often about people that are rapidly promoted or that are making, you know, a pretty big jump in the senior ranks, is quite simply just this quality of they get things done.

And again, we go back to your point of having established a pattern? Is that or I'll hear or say things like, you know, the company's been under a lot of stress the last couple of years, but no matter what I've thrown at and needed to do, she just looked at me and said, okay, and did it. And of course, there's lots of other qualities, but if I had to pick out a tooth, those are the two that come to mind. Number one, have you developed a relationship or relationships with people already in senior leadership? And then number two, have you shown initiative and dependability?

Anita Brick: Got it. So an evening student asked again, this is someone inside a company. He said, I want to create a global brand that I can use across regions. Is this different? If I choose to focus my career on one country or I make it more global? If so, what are the things that I need to consider? If my goal is to have a global brand?

Joe Calloway: And I go back to what I said earlier about knowing your market. You want to establish your brand across regions and certainly across countries, or even better, in one specific country. Then you have to not just know a lot of facts about those regions or that country or those countries. There's a difference between knowing something and really understanding their marketplace and their challenges and their opportunities.

Anita Brick: Clearly is true. If you are looking for employment in a small company, at a regional company, a multinational company, to understand and not just the products but the market, and I would probably add that it also to have cultural agility so you can move naturally and fluidly from one region to another, from one country to another to be. It seems like that's a pivotal piece. If someone wants to be able to go from one area to another.

Joe Calloway: It really is. It's so important you do. The great thing is to need all that information, all of that knowledge, that cultural understanding. It's available now. There are resources, there are books, there are courses on the importance of understanding culture in business relationships. And if you can demonstrate that more professionally, then you're competent and it gives you a huge advantage because it's very, very important. Absolutely.

Anita Brick: So okay, so we knew we had to get some quantitative questions here because this is after all, there was a weekend student and he said, are there metrics to assess the potential value of my personal brand? If not, what qualitative measures can I use?

Joe Calloway: That's a great question. I'll tell you what pops into my mind. Years ago, I ran across some research that GE capital had done, and it was on how companies make buying decisions, and they came up with three tiers of factors that were important in the first tier were things like, you've got to do good work. I mean, you've got to do really good quality work. Where it got interesting was when they went into more of the tiebreaker decisions on who they chose to do business with, and I remember that the number one, the tiebreaker in this survey was easy to do business with.

Anita Brick: Interesting.

Joe Calloway: Yeah, I know it was really fascinating. And they said that you've made your way up the ladder in all these things that we expect, and then you get into the more competitive aspects. The tie breaker is easy to do business with the other quantitative on how effective is your brand? I mean, the immediately available quantitative things, like if you look back at your old career path calls, maybe you've been promoted, you looked at, you know, all that stuff.

Anita Brick: Well, before you go on, what about things like clouds? We had some folks in, oh, back in the summer, and one person from Deloitte was talking about I mean, this was specifically, you know, in the social media area and was talking about cloud. And he called on someone who I guess was super happy to be called on because most people have a relatively low cloud score.

And on a scale of 1 to 100, this was in the 80s. The senior partner at Deloitte was very, very impressed. Cloud is certainly one. Is that the primary one or are there some others that you would also recommend?

Joe Calloway: For social media? Impact cloud is the one. It's certainly the one that I'm most familiar with. And so I think as far as I know of these that's kind of the standard in terms of measurement. Here's the thing about social media. I hear people say sometimes something along the lines of, well, I know I've got to get out there on social media and I know I've got to get some stuff up.

And I would say, wait a second. I know that most people know better than this, but it's not a matter of getting stuff up. It's a matter of getting really, really good, engaging stuff. It's not a matter of posting 100 things on LinkedIn. It's a matter of posting things that get responses on LinkedIn, that start conversations. And if you're not starting conversations on social media, then I would take another look at what I'm posting.

Anita Brick: That's a good point. I think that this person's question was, is there some plug and play formula to say, all right, the potential value of my brand is X, and I don't know that there is an aggregated measure, you know, cloud you pull. And I think you have to piece it together or cobble it together. Maybe the cloud score or maybe or performance reviews, maybe recommendations, things in LinkedIn, I don't think unless I unless you're aware of something, I don't think there's one place to put it all together and then yield a score.

Joe Calloway: There's not. And the other thing, it can get a little cloudy, you can get off track because on the one hand, it's one thing to have the ultimate number. A thousand people know who you are. It's another thing to have a thousand people admire and be very interested in who you are. Right. So the numbers can be a little misleading. There are companies that are really well known, but that doesn't mean that they're well, like there's a difference.

Anita Brick: A very good point, invariably.

Joe Calloway: And I think that the person who asked this question was really smart to follow up by saying, if there's no metrics, then what are the qualitative measures that I could use?

Anita Brick: Could we switch gears for a quick moment? Okay. So we've been talking about ways to enhance and grow. There are a couple of questions about retrenchment in a way. One person says hi Joe, would appreciate your insight into what is the best way to overcome any gaps in your career progression. This is another one. Specifically, I was underemployed post the 2008 recession and have not been able to advance in my career as fast as I should because I had to build from a lower starting point. How can I artfully craft my message to overcome any perception that I am an underachiever?

Joe Calloway: On the one hand, that's a challenging, frustrating position to be in. That can be a tough one. On the other hand, there are tons of people in that position. I mean, the recession really stirred everything up so much for so many companies and so many individuals. My first thought is, don't be defensive about it. There's no need to be defensive about it. There was one recession then it really repositioned a whole lot of people.

Anita Brick: Let me interrupt for a second. He had to regroup. He had to take a step back and now looks like he took a hit. Not everybody did take a hit. A lot of people did, but not everyone. What can he do to enhance his personal brand so that he's not viewed as one of those unfortunate?

Joe Calloway: Here's the only answer I know, which is, while being certainly perfectly honest and transparent about your employment record, you simply have to focus on the strengths. You have to focus on what you did accomplish. You have to focus on, for example. And during this time period I developed fill in the blank skill sets. You have to leverage whatever it was in whatever position you were in.

Then you have to find the strength in that, and you have to leverage that. You know, it's one of those questions where none of this is not at all what this person is saying. But if somebody says, okay, I'm in a tough position, how can it not be a tough position? Sorry. It's a tough position.

Anita Brick: Well, it's but you don't have to apologize for it.

Joe Calloway: Exactly. That's what I meant. I don't be defensive and focus on my strengths. Focus on whatever. Positives are. Words like I was under employed, I get it. But how can you talk about what you did in that underemployment situation in which maybe you did have to develop some new skills or you learned something?

Anita Brick: Resilience is a huge thing.

Joe Calloway: As a matter of fact, it's interesting. Yeah, that could be the greatest advantage of all is to focus on that strength of what you did.

Anita Brick: Good point. Here's an interesting situation. We can be students inside a company working. Everything is going great, he said. Self-promotion in my company is deemed as politically inappropriate. Is there a subtle technique that I can use to gain positive visibility without derailing myself?

Joe Calloway: Yeah, I think the way to do that, and this is to not snap your fingers. It goes back to what you said, which I think was so vitally important, which is have you established a track record? Have you established a pattern of consistency in this? And by this what I mean is let me use this phrase visibility through accomplishment, that it goes back to the quality of the work that you have to do.

These are obvious, but they are the answers. How do you self-promote without looking like yourself? Promote. You have to show up. You have to be the one that volunteers to help. I know that's not my department, but I think I see some things I can do over here that can help you guys make your process easier. Over there, you simply show up visibility through accomplishment that is the answer. And it's not a quick answer.

Anita Brick: We 're right. So it's the consistency. It's being likable and easy to work with, taking initiative. It's kind of all those things that you said. But that's good because you're not saying, look at me for the sake of it. You're rising above and making it easy for them to see you. Yeah.

Joe Calloway: And I think the words how can I help are invaluable. Is that the conclusion of a department meeting? You walk up to the manager or the person who was just leading the meeting, and it's about a new initiative or a new project. And certainly I'm not saying you do this behind everybody else. Back is another chip that you throw on the towel, which is, hey, Anita, listen, I really want to be helpful in this initiative.

Please let me know if you see a way that I can help Anita, I think I might have a couple of ideas that could be helpful on this. You want to do that during the meeting as well? You become known as the one that shows up and is willing to help.

Anita Brick: Yeah you're right. Do you have time for like, maybe two more questions.

Joe Calloway: I got all the time you want? Okay.

Anita Brick: Thanks so much, Joe. An alum. So I'm currently employed. My goal is to change jobs and maybe my role slightly, but in a new company, how can I balance what I write and how I demonstrate my brand in LinkedIn and not alert my current manager that I'm looking for a new job?

Joe Calloway: What I would do is, little by little start to change the nature of work on LinkedIn. Establishing myself as an expert or someone who is really good at whatever it is you're really good at. In other words, you're not fishing for a job. You are demonstrating through the conversations on LinkedIn. You know somebody reads what you post in.

Their reaction is, well, she's really good at this. She really has great insights at this. It's tricky. Yeah. If you look like you're looking for your job and your managers go say, hey, it looks like you're looking for a new job, right? The answer that hi no to that is that you use LinkedIn to start to establish credibility. And I would also say this. You might also want to consider using LinkedIn primarily as an information gathering ring source. And so I think about what I learned on LinkedIn about who might be looking for people for various jobs and then approach them through other venues or other ways.

Anita Brick: Interesting, interesting. I probably would also suggest that they go under their profile and the privacy setting and turn the broadcast off.

Joe Calloway: Yeah, that's.

Anita Brick: Yes. If they're making substantive changes to their profile, regardless of how many people they have in their network, it's going to go out to all of them.

Joe Calloway: Yeah, exactly. What I think you want to do is you want to use resources like LinkedIn to position you as you would have to fill in that blank, but to position you in such a way that it creates interest in you. And yet, additionally, it's your managers watching. You do have to be subtle about that.

Anita Brick: Yeah, you do. And a lot of that has to do with the title that you choose. You know, what goes under your name and in the summary and stuff. But yeah, the subtlety and certainly not broadcasting it to everybody because that can be one of those, oh, just looking for a new job. It's a balancing act and you have to measure your risk profile.

And how much risk are you willing to take? And do it carefully. You've said a lot, a lot of different things. You've guided us in a bunch of different ways. Our audience loves some takeaways, some practical things. So what are three things that you would advise someone to take their best brand to the next level?

Joe Calloway: The two things that immediately come to mind are boats in the area again of information gathering. Number one is go beyond your own perception of what your strengths are. Go beyond your own assessment of what you do well. Do interviews with people who you trust to tell you the truth, and what you're wanting to find out are two things. What are the things that they consider your strength, your brand strengths. This is so important. What are the factors that may be working against you?

Anita Brick: Yeah, and almost.

Joe Calloway: Unneeded to the point for you. For some, I know with my clients, a lot of times they'll send out customer surveys and they'll look at the survey and say, come on, you're setting yourself up to get a good score. So are you trying to manufacture a high score or are you trying to find out what's really going on?

And it's like that 360 process where everybody understands that the rules are we're going to be really honest with each other in the interest of helping each other grow and succeed. I would advise people to ask whoever they deem to be good sources of this information and tell them, so, look, I'm really trying to get better at what I did or have.

I want to phrase it, tell me what I could work on. And that's actually a good, non-threatening way to phrase it, so that people can be honest with you without being afraid they're going to offend you. It's simply, what can I do? What should I work on to get better at what I do? The other thing that I would advise them, and they're the ones that are going to have to fill in the specifics of this, but I would advise them to constantly, constantly look for ways to improve.

Here's a specific takeaway list of the three things you think you are. Absolutely. You just excel. They are three of your greatest strengths and then challenge yourself to improve on each of those by 20%. Or you don't pick the number because so often we say, well, I'm not good at this. I need to get better at it. It could be that you need to take what you're not good at and just say, I am not good at this. I'm not going to be. So I'm going to put my real effort into leveraging and improving on those things that I do do well and really build and leverage those strengths, because a lot of times we overlook them.

Anita Brick: Yeah, I really love that. Choose the things that you are good at and get better at them, and shore up the things that you're not so good at, just not have them be an impediment. Be really self-reflective and have the courage to do that. Look at your strengths up the game there. Is there a third or are those the two main things that you would suggest people focus on?

Joe Calloway: The other thing and they touched on this earlier, but I think it's really important and I go through this process all the time when I'm rolling out a new program or a new service. And the question I ask myself, and here's a good question that I think we can all ask ourselves when we're looking at what we bring to the workplace or what we bring to the marketplace, which is to list all of the things that we think we bring. And then I ask this question after each one. So people could look at your strengths and go, this is all nice. It's all good stuff, but how does it help me solve my problem? How does it help us? That's our strategy. How does it help this department or this company create opportunity? And so I think we have to translate it to what it means to our version of the customer, whether it's our boss, the company that we work for, the company that we'd like to work for, we've got to put it in terms that they go, yes, that is what we need, not just what you do. That's a good thing, that's how it helps us get what we need.

Anita Brick: You're absolutely right. And that translates into conversations you have into resumes and all kinds of things. Very good advice. Yeah, this was great, Joe. Thank you so very much. I know a lot of time has passed since the last time we did this, but I'm so glad we did. And I'm glad that you had the time and that we were able to chat today.

Joe Calloway: It was my pleasure. I'll come back any time.

Anita Brick: Okay. And Joe has some great stuff on his website, which is his name, Joe Calloway.com And thank you all for listening. This is Anita Brook with CareerCast at Chicago Booth. Keep advancing.