Developing Your Multigenerational Agility

Anita Brick: Hi, this is Anita Brick and welcome to CareerCast at Chicago Booth. To help you advance in your career, today we are delighted to be speaking with Davina Ware. She is a workplace and career strategist, leadership trainer, marketer, and founder of Upwardly Paved Path leadership consulting. She holds an MBA in integrated marketing communications from Roosevelt University and she's also the National Program Director for the Women to Women Network and has been featured in USA Today, New York Weekly and HR.com.

Hi, Davina. I am so glad we're doing this because I must tell you, earlier today, literally minutes before you and I got on this call, I was chatting with someone and she said, "Oh, what are you doing after this?" "I am going to be talking about inter-multiple-generational agility." And she said, "Oh my gosh, I feel like whenever I walk into a new team, there are people who have already decided who I am and what I can do and what I can't do." So she said, "I can't wait until it goes live." So we already have one listener, so this is good, and again, thank you for being on this call.

Davina Ware: Thanks for having me and I'm glad that we've already got our pre-audience, I'll call it.

Anita Brick: Here we go. Tell us a little bit in maybe 30 seconds, please define multigenerational agility for us.

Davina Ware: Multigenerational agility really is the ability to flow in dialogue, connection, influence, and authority with any generation, any generation. At its core is empathy, which is my favorite word on the planet, and respect because it commands relatability and to be seen as a trustworthy source, even being from another generation. So just as we're able to flow in and out of different environments as easily as stepping outside of your house and going to the Starbucks, it's that same concept with people of different generations in the same place.

Anita Brick: All right, well, I could tell you from our questions today, that's not happening so much. So let's start with an alum and he said, "To be honest, I don't understand why generations new to the workforce are asking for so many concessions and much more flexibility than makes sense to me for overall productivity and company growth. Can you help me get past this?"

Davina Ware: That is a question I get a lot in my work and usually this is coming from Gen Xer who has been in the field for 20, 25 plus years. They have a certain standard and the way that they do things and then we have these newer generations kind of bump up against that standard a little bit. Key thing to be mindful of, especially this younger generation in the workforce, which is Gen Z, the Zillennials, is that their coming of age was very different than us older generations, and I'm a Millennial saying this. There are certain maturity, emotional maturity, and there are certain people skills that maybe they have not developed, some of it at no fault of their own. Most of Gen Z, their coming of age was COVID. Being behind screens, when you have so much access to knowledge and information, their mind moves quickly and everything moves quickly. They need guidance and mentorship.

So I get the idea of why do you need so many concessions? The better approach is to help them understand the standard and help them grow in professionalism. A lot of them aren't aware. This is the generation of social media. They have no clue what it's like to have a world without social media and without cell phones. But there's certain professional guidelines that across industry are silently understood. They need a little help with that. So as a leader and a manager, I think the best thing that they can do is to have a conversation about the expectations and then let them know you're on their side to help bring them along and bring them up to speed and assure them that there is opportunities for them to be flexible, but it has to be outlined for them.

Anita Brick: Okay, this is a really good point because here's an MBA student, and by the way, my nephew is a Gen Z. I would agree. I mean, he graduated from high school in 2020. There are a lot of things that would have been mapped out that just did not get mapped out for a whole variety of reasons. But here's an MBA student and she said, "I believe that trust and respect are the starting points for the positive growth of both individuals and teams. That said, there's no clear definition of what this means across our multigenerational team. I want to figure out what actions to take so that I can influence leadership to be more effective and build on each other's strengths and talents, but we don't even know what trust and respect even means and it's all over the place with our team."

Davina Ware: I am so glad that they posed that question because it's the truth. On the side of the leader, this is where trainings on collegiality and civility were great.

Anita Brick: What can we practically tell this person and any listeners of where to start? From what was said, the MBA student is not the leader but wants to influence the leader. How would you advise this person to be listened to and help leadership with those definitions?

Davina Ware: They'd need to ask them straight up. A lot of the fuzziness is because we're just sitting in our own heads, but to ask, "What does respect mean to you? Can you outline that for me because I want to make sure I can meet you where you are and that I can demonstrate respect in a way that you feel respected and heard." So start by posing that question. And most people don't do that, and quite frankly, that leader is going to cycle through their own, "Oh gosh, I don't even know. I have preconceived notions that I can't even verbalize."

Ask the questions straight up in a one-on-one capacity. You don't want to put anyone in a compromising position in front of a lot of people. And then share, "This is what I deem as respect. How can we bring this together in a way that feels authentic to both of us?" And then after writing that out, "How can we share this with the rest of the team?" And that is that MBA student having influence from the bottom up. We've got to get out of our heads and have the conversation by just asking the question without any filtered or layered over it, straight up, what is respect to you?

Anita Brick: All right, that can take courage. How would you suggest someone muster the courage if there is already a separation between that person and the leader who will ultimately approve or redefine what trust and respect means?

Davina Ware: You can couch it in, "I want to make sure that I'm doing my best here and that I'm honoring you as a leader." When you couch it that way, it shows humility. It's not just about me, but I want to make sure that my productivity is the best that it possibly can be and that we have an open flow of communication and that helps the leader to drop their shoulders to say, "Well, of course I want them to do their best here at this organization, so I need to be mindful of that, or let me share this with them."

Anita Brick: Okay, so here's a question that goes along for another MBA student and he said, "Hi, Davina. I really like my team of four different generations, but I often don't understand their language, including cultural references. How do I get the, quote, quote, 'Handbook' without seeming stupid or lost? Thank you."

Davina Ware: I love this question because it showcases the openness and desire to learn and the younger generations can almost sniff that out and that helps them to be more comfortable. I'd say to offer an hour, whether it's a professional development opportunity or a workplace outing, and write some questions of, "I'm from this generation. The words that were cool to us or different cultural references were these three things." And so you're giving them a framework of, "We used to say cowabunga when I was your age. What do you say that is cool or rad or happening right now?"

And just let them talk, and you'll learn so much just from their own dialogue amongst each other. But you've got to set a time and ask specific questions and take notes and then follow up with, "Okay, so I know I'm going to be uncool if I just adopt your language. In what way can I be a part of your circle of influence, that I could be a part of your generation's lingo without looking like I'm trying too hard?" But just the fact that they asked, I think puts them ahead of the game with their team already.

Anita Brick: I like that and I like what you said, you were just vulnerable. You said, "I know what it was like when I was in my whatever age. I know it's not the same." And this person has four different generations, so they may have to have this conversation, they know their own, so that's one, but they may have to have it three times all in all, saying, "Look, I don't want to appropriate your language because that'll be kind of silly. I just want to know how I can engage."

I had an experience, I was in a volunteer situation and I happened to be sharing something with this group of about 15 people, and I would say it was five different generations there, and I was probably more vulnerable than I typically am. And there were two Gen Zs who came up to me after this activity, after this meeting was over, and they said I felt real to them, and that that added tremendous credibility. So I think the real part that you suggested, and I had that experience too, I thought they were just going to be, they were like, "Oh, my gosh, get over herself." I was just being honest and authentic. I think that there's a lack of that. The way you posed your answer, how you need to lean into that, if it's fake at all, you've lost them.

Davina Ware: Absolutely. This younger generation, they thrive on vulnerability and authenticity. It is literally the gas that fuels their cars.

Anita Brick: I agree. And I think it's because, like you said at the beginning, because social media has some of that, a lot of it, it doesn't. So I think they're maybe hungry for it as well. Here's another boosie, and she said, "I'm a new manager and the multigenerational team I inherited has individuals with varied levels of skills and talents. How would you advise a new manager like me to learn how to motivate the team members in ways to help them grow and be useful for their own development and also to the team?"

Davina Ware: The key thing here is to go into it knowing that they will all need different things. They are all driven by different things, and they all have different ways that they like and don't like to be communicated with. And I would actually pose this in a way that this has more to do with behaviors, with their motivators, with their emotional intelligence, and less about the generation. So one thing that I see in my work in facilitating and training multigenerational teams is that people need to see themselves in data in black and white, and that's, A, something you can't argue with, B, it gives the leaders something concrete to move off of because then we're not imposing our own biases. We're not reading books and implementing strategies that are very high level and have nothing to do with the personalization and the culture of your team.

But if you have team members and you have a report or an assessment to see exactly where they are, then you can meet them in that place. And when you, one, provide that opportunity of professional development and growth or assessment, then people feel a sense of loyalty to the organization of, "Hey, they did something for me. They carved out space to where I can see myself." And that gives that team member a sense of ownership on its own where they can help me grow. It's basically like having a personal handbook and manual for each person. And when you have that, then you can set up strategies and milestones to leverage that person's strengths based on their different scores. I do DiSC specifically, emotional intelligence science called drivers that's really, really cool. But then you allow them to drive their own train and that evokes self-starting.

For as an example, I'm a person that's driven by resourcefulness. It's to a fault. I feel so good when I can squeeze 69 things into a 60-minute hour. That's where I find my sense of achievement. So if I was a person on her team, the best way you could reach me is create opportunities where I can maximize something, where I can maximize a budget, where I can maximize time, where I can maximize the relationship. But you've got to be able to see that in black and white to know exactly how to meet me, how to communicate with me, how to motivate and how to manage me. So in that question is less about the generations and more about the behavioral, motivational, emotional bias needs of the team.

Anita Brick: I like that. To build on that, there was another question about, "Okay, I have multi-generations in my team. For some people where they are in their life, their career is number one, and for other people on the team, it is not number one. They're about to have a family or other things where their personal life is number one. They continue to do a great job in their role, but they're not going to be there 24/7 and there's some judging on each side. How have you seen those types of issues resolved?"

Davina Ware: This also is an extension of the previous question, and that goes back to the motivators, which has nothing to do with generation. There are some people that are driven by status and driven by matriculation and climbing the ladder, and there are some people that are driven by being altruistic, by how can I help people? As an extension to the previous question, you have to know that at black and white. There's a lot of things we inherently kind of know about ourselves, but until you see it, you don't have the language to discuss it. So they might not even know. So having a tool that showcases the same information to both you as the leader and the people on your team, then you can have a real conversation at that point and have a sense of understanding of, "Ah, okay, you are driven by being collaborative. You are driven by being in the background and hoisting up the leaders above you," or you might have a person that is driven by innovation.

Having a tool that will tell you that will let you know who those people are, and then you can't really fault them because your own personal motivators are things that don't change. It's about placing people in the right position. This is also very helpful in hiring. If you have certain strategic goals that you need to reach that I'm trying to go to the next thing, go to the higher place, that they move at a fast pace, it's helpful for you to know that in the hiring process because trying to mold people after the fact is going to be an uphill battle. It's best to create space where people can be themselves that will help them to be self-starters, but then really assess what do you need? So I'd actually also tell this leader to step back, what do you need based on what you are tasked with? Then think about what positions you have people playing.

Anita Brick: Okay. One thing I want to push back on a little bit, you said that motivations don't change. I believe they do. And in fact, that question, the motivation of someone who's starting out in their career could be is that they want to move fast and career is it, and someone who has just had a family, career may not be all that it is. So I do think that there are life events that change motivations and maybe that also is a time to reevaluate and maybe reshuffle some of the roles as well.

Davina Ware: I think it's a yes and. So when I'm speaking of motivators, I'm speaking specifically of the science of driving forces, and that's a very specific [inaudible 00:16:31]. That means I might prioritize, again, I'm super resourceful, I prioritize maximization. Of course as different life events happen, my focus might change, but where I still find the sense of achievement will be that maximization. Priorities will shift with people, but what fills their cup may look a little different. Answer your question, it's a both and.

Anita Brick: That is why the definitions are so important. That's where we started. I had one definition, you had a different one, but it's that dialogue that we need to have the courage to have. And my mentor would say a dialogue is where you go into it willing to have your mind changed if the evidence is there. So I appreciate your jumping in. So here are two different sides of the same thing. One person really driven, not moving fast enough, the other person afraid that their manager doesn't think that they're moving fast enough. The first one wants to move faster, the second wants to just get some footing. Well, let me just share this with you. And this is an alum. "For the first time in my career, I'm reporting to someone who wasn't even born when I graduated from college. My manager has let others know she didn't choose to have me on the team and wonders what value I can actually bring. What advice would you have to help me show that I can add value from a position of strength rather than being worried about losing my job, which I am."

Davina Ware: And that's a fair position to be in and I'm sure a bit of a paradigm shift to report to someone who is so much younger than you. One thing I would say is be curious. Be curious about their experience, be curious about their goals, be curious about their strategy, and then share, "Here's how I can add to that," or, "Here's my experience of how I think will help you as the leader to look good to your bosses, for you to be quicker, to make your life easier." So it's taking a seed of humility, which I know might feel like a stabbing to the heart with this, but one of the biggest gifts that we can give in our connections with other generations is curiosity. You already have years of experience, you have intuition that they might not have, help them to fill in their possible blind spots, but of course, don't approach it as, "You're younger than me. You have blind spots."

Anita Brick: Right, right, right. Of course not, of course not. Yeah.

Davina Ware: But be curious because you might learn some things that might untangle some misconceptions that you have about this person. And again, we want to stop thought patterns and ruminations and stereotypes that we might form from people, and asking questions helps to do that. So when you ask them about what do you need, how can I help, it stops them down the track of I didn't even want to choose them. They're asking you how they can make you better. That completely shifts the conversation, that shifts the focus, and that shifts the relationship.

Anita Brick: I like that.

Davina Ware: So helping them understand that I'm here for you and to help you, and here's how I can take some stress off of you, that creates partnership and less of a hierarchy between the two of you.

Anita Brick: I like that. So here's the other side of that a little bit. So this is an MBA student. "I'm three years into my career and feel like I'm not advancing as much as I would like. In fact, I am bored. The main thing keeping me engaged and interested in my career is being at Booth and getting my MBA. I don't mean to sound arrogant and some of my team members are really just coasting. They don't seem to be interested in accelerating to a new level. How can I move ahead without alienating others who think I am just overly assertive?"

Davina Ware: I wonder if the company or the industry that they're in is just moving at a slower pace than this person likes to move. And that's okay, but it doesn't sound like that's going to change quickly or even soon. So I would suggest this person start to research what industries are always at the cutting edge or what industry is at the forefront. They need to be in a culture and an environment that moves fast just like them. And there's nothing wrong with their pace. They're just people that move quickly. They probably love problems and challenges and they don't have enough problems and challenges to solve in their work. So I would suggest doing some research about things they're passionate about that are looking for problem solvers. They need a problem to solve in their work.

So I would focus the energy there and to not feel bad about moving fast or getting bored compared to their team members. They just operate differently. And then after a while, they're just going to want to break out and I would say get ahead of it. Find an environment, find an industry, find an organization that moves at their same pace. They'll feel like they're achieving something or they'll get a fulfillment at that point.

Anita Brick: I like that. I really believe that curiosity changes the dynamic and changes a lot of things for the better. But one area that perhaps they could look into even in the same company in the meantime while they're doing some exploration, is to look at where's the product development going on? Is there an innovation group? Is there even a corporate venture capital group where they could add value? Because we know in all three of those areas, the pace is definitely different.

Davina Ware: Absolutely right. Yes. I think that's helpful too. At the end of the day, find problems.

Anita Brick: Find them and then you do it where you are, you'll be even more attractive if you go into an industry or a company where that's their MO overall.

Davina Ware: Yes, agreed.

Anita Brick: Well, here's the thing. There is another Boothie, situation is a little bit tricky. "I feel like there is little to no psychological safety where I work. There are two factions on our team, each a different generation. I am new to the team and I don't know how to position myself so I'm taken seriously by both groups. And by the way, I was brought in to build bridges between the two of them."

Davina Ware: With this I put on my marketing hat of a personal brand. Who are you as a professional? Are you a people person? Are you the relationship builder? Are you fast moving? Are you the person that thrives on problems and challenges? I think first be very clear on what your value is to any organization in a way that you can easily share to either party. That has to be clear first. This is what I bring. And then the next step is to communicate that with both parties because it sounds like they just don't know.

And if you don't know the solutions you bring and the very unique, skilled, stylish way that you do it, no one else is going to know either. Be clear. Outline, this is the foundations of your personal brand, including what I mentioned before, what drives you into action. I'm really great at X. Then you have to share that. Then you can partner with people on both ends to say, this is my value. How can I bring that to your situation? How can I bring that to your team? How can I bring that to your project? So it starts with that. Focus on your personal brand. Then communicating that and then executing that.

Anita Brick: I like that. I think it also goes back to something we both said earlier about curiosity. So if you go into those conversations with curiosity and humility, you're likely to find out where they have holes or gaps that you could fill in so that you align both who you are. But I think it's very good to know who you are because if you don't, you'll just get swept up to wherever they feel that there's a need that may not be a strength.

Davina Ware: Exactly right. The curiosity makes a big deal, and what I've learned, and I kind of think the undertone of a lot of these questions is, most people lack self-awareness, not just the person asking it, but these scenarios where there's confusion, where there is misalignment, where there is a lack of psychological safety, the people in charge, lack of self-awareness, which is why all of these things are a breeding ground for what I just said.

Anita Brick: Agreed.

Davina Ware: So in general, that self-awareness of not just who you are, what you bring, but what your limitations are, how you waste time, how there's certain ways you don't like to be communicated with, or you can't read the room and you lack emotional intelligence. All of that is what's helping to create this. So at it core is understanding yourself and having that awareness and then being able to recognize that in other people. That's where the rubber meets the road and where you can have authentic conversations where you can grow your influence and be a self-leader, whether you lead other people or not, to be a self-leader with character, with integrity, and with clarity.

Anita Brick: Thank you for everything. I think that the things that you shared work within a generation and across generations, and that is very powerful because you could have some of the same areas where there's lack of clarity, or confusion, or misinformation, or making assumptions that aren't there within a generation and across. So this is all very good. Thank you for that. When you think about it, what are three things that you would advise someone to do to increase their multigenerational agility?

Davina Ware: Beautiful question. The first thing, like you said, I mentioned it before, start with you. Are you clear on you, on who you are, what you have to offer, how you like to be communicated with, where you may have missed it in the past, your pitfalls, but also the ideal environment that you need to be in? Start with you. Be as clear as you can with who you are, what you have to offer. So going back to the tools, the assessment tools, finding those that are very clear, backed by brain science, that'll help you as a starting point because that'll help you also to understand others and inadvertently create so much empathy for the people around you. The other thing that I would say is to prioritize understanding the experience of others. Have coffee, make it very informal, with someone of a different generation. Just be curious.

So creating an intentional opportunity for curiosity and ask specific questions about their experience with technology from what they initially learned to where we are now and where we're going, with finance, with education, with family and relationships, with future outlooks. Ask questions around these things so you can get a high level 30,000 foot view of how this person experiences life and how generation and just the time that they were born influenced that, because there's still a person outside of being a Millennial, a Baby Boomer, a Gen Zer.

The other thing I would say is to go back to past interactions with other generations where you felt like there was a breakdown. What was your part in that breakdown? Was it your preconceived notions? Was it your own insecurities? What caused the breakdown and what can you take ownership over? We have different feedback triggers. People say something to us in a certain way and it doesn't land right. There are certain reasons for it. Maybe it affected a truth you believe about yourself. Maybe it didn't come from a person that you have a good relationship with, or perhaps it's all the information wasn't true, and so you threw the baby out with the bath water. Take ownership of your perspective and how you're showing up amongst these other generations. So those would be my three things that I would say.

Anita Brick: All right, I love that. Okay. Just to give you a little bit of wiggle room, anything you want to add?

Davina Ware: I'd like to add that I know it's challenging having different generations in the workplace, but I've also seen awesome things happen when all of the generations get on the same page. The level of innovation, the level of paradigm shifting mentally that happens, partnering with each other to break down different standards or norms that just no longer fit the current culture and rebuilding that, I've just seen really beautiful things happen. So I'm very optimistic that with small tweaks and understanding each other, being curious, being vulnerable and continuing to show up, it can create really great things that will be refreshing for everyone sitting at the table. We just have to commit to doing it. So I just implore people, don't shut down and don't get stuck in your silo because you miss opportunity for growth, for expansion, and for more opportunities. I just think there's multiplication ahead of us and not subtraction.

Anita Brick: I love that. It's really good on so many levels and when we do that, we increase, regardless of what generation we're part of, our impact and relevance.

Davina Ware: Exactly right.

Anita Brick: Thank you so much. You're doing really, really important work. Please continue to do it. When it comes down to it, as you said, we're all human beings. We want to be valued, and it's our responsibility to find value in others as well.

Davina Ware: Exactly right.

Anita Brick: Thank you so much for doing this. Keep up the great work that you're doing and we hope to connect with you again.

Davina Ware: This has been great. Thank you so much.

Anita Brick: You're very welcome. And thank you. And thank you all for listening. This is Anita Brick with CareerCast at Chicago Booth. Keep advancing.