Conducting an Effective Global Job Search

Anita Brick: Hi, this is Anita Brick, and welcome to CareerCast at the Chicago GSB to help you advance in your career. Today we're speaking with Mary Anne Thompson, who is the president and founder of GoinGlobal.com, which you can find lots of really great content on the career services page under research. She founded this company and it researches and distributes country-specific employment and career information to more than one million customers worldwide.

She also created and managed numerous multinational employment initiatives and served as an attorney and advisor to former US President Ronald Reagan and Secretary of Transportation Elizabeth Dole. Her first book, Global Resume and CV Guide, was the first publication on the market with job-hunting advice for more than 40 countries. Marianne, thank you so much for taking the time. I know you are incredibly busy.

Mary Anne Thompson: The pleasure's mine. I love sharing my enthusiasm and advice for going global.

Anita Brick: Well, I know you did that yourself. I mean, you're not sitting back sort of in your armchair talking about this. You did this live. When you think about it, if someone really wants to contemplate this not just as a fantasy, but as something real, what are three things that they should consider before pursuing that?

Mary Anne Thompson: I think the first and most important tip is to really spend some time living in the country, or the countries, that you are targeting. I myself had been a fairly widespread world traveler prior to my permanent move to Stockholm, Sweden, where I was from 1996 until 2000. And I can tell you that going to different places as a traveler for even a few weeks is much different than actually living there, especially on days when you only had two hours of sunlight.

Most individuals from most countries can go to a number of other countries for up to three months without any type of special visa that has to be in effect. So I think going and living in a country at a time, typically when it's not the prettiest time of the year. So, for example, go to Sweden when there are only two hours of daylight and see realistically what it's like to live and exist in that culture.

Certainly, it would be a great opportunity to have an internship and experience what a workday is like there. Is it a 12-hour day? Do they work in teams? Does everybody work individually? How many different cultures work at that company? Do they only work within that country? So I think actually experiencing that culture for as extended a period of time as you can is the best way to test yourself for that country … to see if you're a good fit for somebody who will really work well outside their home country. It's not easy.

Anita Brick: So how do you know if it's a good idea? One of the students, one of the evening students, asked, how do you even know if it's the right thing? He was thinking about doing a move to either Beijing or Shanghai with his current employer and moving into the Asian division. And as he was doing some research, it looked like the cost of living was actually going to be higher rather than lower. What advice would you give people as to whether that kind of move was feasible?

Mary Anne Thompson: How do you know if anything's the right thing to do until after you've done it? I don't think any of us have that luxury in any part of our life, but I think working internationally or taking a job anywhere in the world is just a matter of balancing out what your priorities are. Certainly, if this individual already has a job with an employer that's going to take them to the destination they'd like to explore, that's not a very risky move in my book.

I think that's a wonderful opportunity. You're working with a corporate environment that you're already familiar with, so there's no learning curve that's there. Certainly if it's a more expensive destination, then I would presume that the salary is going to make up for that. But at the end of the day, I think you have to understand it's a balancing act.

Is the experience worth it? Can you perhaps pick up the language better, faster? Is it going to help your corporate climb? It has been documented in studies for two decades that working internationally is a very positive career move. I think if you're in a position to take that type of risk, you have to calculate it. Are you going by yourself?

Are you taking along a trailing spouse or trailing partner, or are there children involved? You have perhaps elderly parents at home that might need more regular communication with you than you're able to give if you live outside your home country. So there are just a lot of things. I think you have to sit down with a pen and piece of paper and put down pros and cons like we all do about decisions we make every day.

Anita Brick: It's a very good point. I know one of the alums was concerned about that. He had come from India and he's been working in the US and the UK for the last several years. And one of the things that really concerns him is that it's more of a 6- to 7-day workweek in India. At least that is his experience, and he's not sure if he's willing to make that kind of adjustment to lose that time with his family.

And he also doesn't want to seem like the snob saying, well, I'm only going to work five days a week. Is there any way around that? Or do you have to just work with what is and fit in with that culture?

Mary Anne Thompson: So I think that's a very naive attitude to think that if, for example, in Singapore, they work five and a half days a week, every professional office is open half a day on Saturdays, so you don't walk through the door and just announce to everyone that you're not going to work on Saturdays. If you're not open, amenable to fitting in with an existing corporate culture, then that move is not for you.

Anita Brick: That's a good point. And this person's other concern is that having been in the software industry, he's moved around and had a new job every two or so years. Anything you would advise about that? Or is that really the same kind of job hopping that you'd find being the same anywhere in the world?

Mary Anne Thompson: It's not necessarily the same everywhere in the world, but this individual sounds like they've been in large countries where that's a very acceptable practice. Everything's how you write it up in a resume or a CV. True. So is this a positive experience? Have you been moving up in either a pay scale or authority, or responsibility or managerial skill?

So has each one of these moves really been positive for your career? And if you can show that you've made a positive upward track versus just a lot of lateral moves, then I think no one's going to spend a lot of time looking at how many years you are in one company. They want to see whether or not you've had a forward and a positive transition of skills up into other jobs with other companies.

Anita Brick: Good point. One of the questions that came up multiple times, and I think it's part of the preparation process—part of it, as we said, is understanding the environment, the culture, understanding financially if it makes sense. Also, understanding emotionally if it makes sense. A question that continues to appear is, do I really have to have the language of that country?

It seems to me that the answer is yes. Is there more to it than just yes?

Mary Anne Thompson: I think the easy answer is yes, and I certainly think it makes for … even if you are able to find an employment opportunity outside of your home country still utilizing English or whatever your native language is, when you cannot speak the local language—even though that's acceptable behavior within the corporate environment, maybe English is the language of the company—you miss a great deal of the experience of living there.

I know that personally, having lived in Sweden. I did not know Swedish, and that was tied in with the fact that everyone in Sweden knew English. It was very easy for me to exist using English, both in the work environment and also socially, but I missed a lot as well. There were meetings where the individuals didn't have the time to tell me what was going on. I will say that I was hired in a several positions for one job, and kind of relegated to what I would say were lower-level jobs, because at the end of the day, no one had the time to sit there and translate everything to me and explain really what had gone on A to Z and the concept.

The same is true from a social experience. Even though everyone spoke English, I've felt a number of times very awkward breaking into a conversation and everyone would have to stop in their tracks and start speaking in English just because of me. You miss a lot of the experience by not knowing the language. Also, it's another positive check mark on the credential list, and it certainly says a lot about you to a prospective employer.

It's one of those things that documents and proves that you have a serious interest in that country. You have a serious interest in that culture if you've taken the time to learn the language. So there's nothing about knowing the local language that's a negative, and it certainly will make it a positive credential for you on your resume.

Anita Brick: Is there any system or any process to quickly learn a language and be business fluent—and I guess socially fluent too—that you would recommend?

Mary Anne Thompson: I know that Berlitz has now a division, I think … and there's Rosetta Stone, both of which I have heard very positive remarks around. I think a lot of it's online, it's self-study. It doesn't require you going into any type of headquarters or physical office space to learn the language.

Without throwing cold water on it, I also think we're all born with a certain ability for languages. Unfortunately, they're very difficult for me, so I have a very hard time learning another language. It's a good thing that God gave me other strong suits, because the ability to learn a language wasn't one of them.

The other thing that I encourage you to do is to do other things. I'm always amazed at the number of young professionals, especially individuals still in a university environment, who fail to reach out to individuals from the country they're targeting and don't work with them trying to improve their languages.

You can speak back and forth. I think it's important to have somebody from that culture also look at your resume. That's a whole nother topic to talk about. You can get so many DVDs and information online in a local language. With satellite TV, you can get programs in that language. So I think there's a number of things that you can do to enhance whatever level of language skills you have.

I also want to say when you're putting together your resume or your CV, I think it's very important to list languages in which you have any amount of understanding or fluency. So just because you're not, quote unquote, fluent in a language, the other level that I recommend people use—the term conversant, or I would say basic understanding of—if you don't even want to go that far, to say that you're conversant—conversant means you're comfortable speaking at a certain level. Fluent, of course, ia speaking and writing it on a day to day level.

I encourage you to list all the languages that you have some level of knowledge, experience, or fluency in, because that speaks very well to a potential employer. And it may be that even though you're going after a job with French because you're fluent in it, if you have some level of, say, Japanese, they may be involved in a merger that you have no idea about. They may have a French company going off in Hong Kong or going off in Tokyo. You'd be surprised what kind of unusual things potential employers will look at in a resume and you'll eventually be hired for.

Anita Brick: There's sort of a flip of that. One of the alums asked the question, he or she has been in the US for a while. Education here, working here, now wants to return to Asia and is finding that his competitive advantage has kind of dried up. You know, because language was a competitive advantage, understanding various markets globally was a competitive advantage. How can he best position himself? Because he has the skills. He has the credentials. But he's more expensive now than, you know, his compatriots in Shanghai.

Mary Anne Thompson: Several issues to speak about that on. Number one, there's several Asian cultures that really have a—and this individual is probably very aware of this—a negative perception of home country people who leave to go get educated elsewhere and then come back. So I think part of that is a cultural hesitation probably, or realization that just the fact that they've been out of the country for that long is somewhat of a challenge.

The other thing is that I think this individual's best bet would be to try to become associated or affiliated with an American organization that's in Shanghai—someone right away who would see that dual culture, real-life expertise, living experience, educational experience is truly somebody who could hit the ground running. Hiring a local is typically cheaper, but most of the time in the studies that I've read recently, especially in China, locals with the same education and experience credentials of individuals who either have been educated or worked in the United States are not a dime a dozen in the local environment.

I think it's a matter of doing your homework and trying to understand what can this individual bring to the table that a local cannot. It's very important that you do your research, that you try to talk off the record. I'm a big believer in informational interviews to try to target individuals. In a large city like New York or Washington, DC, there's so many Chinese American business associations where they could reach out, probably have off-the-record discussions to say, look, this is what I want to do, and here are my credentials.

Which of these do you think are more appealing? And how can I beat out a local for the same type of job? I also think realistically, again, it may be a matter too that you will have to lower some of your salary requirements. I don't think it's realistic to think …

I work with State Department family members around the world. It's a real adjustment to have to revise your salary expectations to actually meet what the equivalents are in the local economy. Just because you've been paid a certain amount in another country does not mean that your new venue is able to support you at the same salary level. So it's just one of those decisions you have to make. Do you want to go home and get that kind of experience and start to balance out your experience and go back to your home culture, or is making money and paying off that school loan still at the top of the list?

Anita Brick: It really is an interesting dilemma, and it sounds like there are a number of things that you can do to be kind of taken seriously. I think we've kind of talked around those a little bit. I think we kind of made the move into things that are challenging. And one of the alums asked the question—and there were a couple people who asked this—you know, I want to crack into the Asian market, the subcontinent market in India, how do I do it? How do I navigate the work permit process? And is an executive recruiter my best approach?

Mary Anne Thompson: I'll start with the last question. An executive recruiter is certainly a nice way to go. If you've got the experience and you got the credentials, executive search groups, all of the top ones, even the smaller ones, are very selective and in my experience, very hard and fast about the level of credentials that you have to have for them to even entertain recommending you for, or looking at you for a certain type of job that's in another country, even in your same country.

So I think executive search is great for those people who have those credentials. Once again, do some informational interviews. A lot of people bang their head against an executive search door for a long time, and don't see the writing on the wall that they're really not of that credential level. And executive search is really not an opportunity for them.

Anita Brick: Another avenue for the people who had … a few people asked that question … In the November 2007 CareerCast, Tom Linquist from Egon Zehnder talked a lot about executive recruiters and sort of the process to get a better understanding and he is open to having people reach out to him being an alum of the GSB. So maybe that would be an avenue for people.

Mary Anne Thompson: Well, I think we go back to, once again, informational interviews. I must say that I may not have the language skill, but I came to this world with a networking skill, which I very much enjoy, and it's a necessary part of my daily work experience. But certainly the job hunt experience—and I had about six months notice before I moved to Stockholm, Sweden, and I'm very proud to say that by the time I landed in Stockholm, I had 63 informational interviews established, and I hadn't even set foot in the country yet because I'd done so much legwork. I was lucky enough to be based in Washington. I went to the Swedish American Trade Council, I went to their meetings. I got the business directories, which I recommend everybody do if you're targeting a country.

I was targeting Sweden. I went to the embassy. You may have a Swedish consulate in your hometown. Almost every embassy, including the United States all over the world, has a business directory of companies from that country who are doing business in Sweden, for example. So I encourage you to once again, the Egon Zehnder. What a lovely man to make the offer of … basically what he's suggesting is he's open for an informational interview, somebody who will very candidly tell you, here the opportunities, here are the salary ranges.

Here's how you're going to differ from a local hire. Here's what your challenges are. Here's what you should play up as far as your credentials go. So I can’t encourage someone enough: you don't want to go into an actual interview situation without having done all that legwork first. And I think … looking for a job outside your home country when all of a sudden there are cultural aspects that come into play.

Now everyone knows, I think, and in Japan, it's important how you hand over a business card. In many cultures, what hand you reach out to shake someone else's hand. With interviews done in an office situation or at night in a social setting, how do you dress? There's still some cultures that … women in a pantsuit just, you know, they may not say anything, but it may not go over positively, and it may be just the reason you don't get the job.

Your level of enthusiasm, how much you talk about your credentials—the American way of putting lots of information on your resume, being very animated, which I am naturally. A lot of my natural tendencies, I have to very consciously tone down in other cultures. So I think it's very, very important to put yourself through those informational interviews; try to reach out as well as you can to connect with people from that culture.

So by the time you are in a serious mode of operation, you're actually going through the mechanisms in the correct format.

Anita Brick: That's a lot of really good information. And informational interviews are so important because in most parts of the world—and I can't think of any off the top of my head where relationships aren’t important … those informational interviews—that informational networking—can be the beginning of a new relationship too.

Mary Anne Thompson: We should do a whole different section on informational interviewing and networking. You mentioned the first book that I wrote for John Wiley and Sons about how to find a job in 40 different countries, and I had no idea how to find a job in 40 different countries. So I reached out in each of these countries. Without any prodding or putting any words into their mouth, I asked every individual in every country in a written correspondence, what's the number one way to find a job in your country? 40 out of 40 responses were networking.

Anita Brick: Wow, that's really great. So the other part of the question had to do with work permits, visa issues. It's tricky. It's hard. Any tips, any ideas that you would suggest navigating those challenges of getting work authorization?

Mary Anne Thompson: It's tricky everywhere, and I think down the road we're going to see all of that change. When 2010 hits and the baby boomers start to retire, I think you're going to actually see some visa and work permit legislation worldwide ease up a lot. From the standpoint, I think that we're going to have to be at our borders with cookies and milk.

I think the whole attitude is going to change, but that's still far down the road. Speaking particularly to Singapore, I would suggest a very good resource online called Contacts Singapore. Singapore and even smaller countries like New Zealand have become very proactive in the recognition that they're losing qualified workforce as individuals start to retire. And you see smaller countries really getting on the bandwagon.

And I can’t give you verbatim information on this, but I know with Contact Singapore that the Singapore government has actually eased a lot of their work permit and visa regulations and requirements for professionals, especially new and inexperienced professionals, as long as they've got degrees. So I think that's a good place to start that. From a work permit situation, on a global level, the legislation or the requirements are almost the same in every country.

In order for an employer—remember, an employer has to obtain your work permit. There's nothing that you, as an individual, can do to obtain a work permit; that is all driven by an employer, and the information has to be applied for and completed and submitted by an employer. So unfortunately, those are steps you cannot take on your own.

That being said, the two requirements that an employer has to make—or two tests that have to be met before they can submit anyone's name for a particular job—is they have to be able to document to their government that there's no one in that country who has the job skills for that job. So they're looking for someone unique that in that country or culture, they don't have that requirement—or, and/or B, that they have advertised for that job.

And no native, no one in the country has come forth and applied for the job. So it's typically a two-pronged test that has to be made. I know from my own experience, when I was living in Sweden, the first job that I got, and I was perfectly suited for, is I worked for a Swedish company and did intercultural training, both for American expats coming into Sweden, but I also worked directly with Swedish families who were being transferred to the United States by Ericsson.

So it was very easy to document, for them, why an American was the best-suited individual to work with Swedish families who were moving to America. So I think if you look for that type of niche … one of the mistakes I think that we all, as human nature, do in a job search or when you're thinking about moving to another country, is you try to think of yourself as a local and what the locals do.

And the bottom line is, the more you look like a local to a prospective employer, the less likely they are to obtain a work permit on your behalf. So you have to be able to document and prove what you can bring to the table that’s different from anybody else that may be available in that country.

My other suggestion is, and it's not always feasible in every situation, is that many times there are large immigration firms that specialize in work permits, doing the paperwork for permits. So it's not only that there are not jobs out there, but it is an expensive and time-consuming effort for a prospective employer to undertake. So I think in a job interview, if it was feasible that you might have the opportunity to say that you were willing to underwrite the cost of obtaining the work permit, obtain legal advice to expedite the work permit, anything to lower a hassle factor for a prospective employer.

The other suggestion I would have, Anita, and we'll talk about this more, how the GoinGlobal content and resources are available through your GSB Career Center to your students and alumni. We deal with work permit and visa applications in every one of our country career guides. For the first time, we've actually put together a small legal staff who've researched this.

It's very detailed about the requirements for every country and we also have a hotline that goes to every visa and work permit form that needs to be completed. I go back to my first comment. You as an individual, as a prospective employer, do not have the authority or the prerogative to complete that information. But once again, knowledge is power. It's very important that you understand the type of information an employer would have to complete on your behalf. So if there's information there that you cannot support, information that you're not comfortable in sharing, then you should have a heads-up on that before you ever go through the process.

My last recommendation that I would make is I always recommend that you start a serious job search … When you're becoming educated on the reality in that country of finding a job, you contact your country's embassy in that country. For example, if I wanted to move to the Philippines, I would contact the American Embassy in the Philippines to find out what the work permit and visa regulations are for Americans looking for a job in the Philippines, because a lot of times there are different work permit and visa caps based on your nationality. We have that here in the United States. There's a cap … and there's an automatic exemption, even here in the United States, for individuals of certain nationalities, that does not apply the same to all nationalities across the board.

So I think it's very important that you contact your embassy in that country. It's the consulate section in every embassy; you can probably go online. Once again, it's an area that you need to become educated on before you make too many serious efforts into looking for a job in that country.

Anita Brick: So it sounds like if they go to the research section of the career site at the GSB and they go into GoinGlobal, there's a lot of information there that can give them a head start.

Mary Anne Thompson: And it's all country specific. It’s a good place to start to have a reality check, that's for sure.

Anita Brick: So would you do this? One of the alums asked if he or she should take a trip to the region and then try to line up informational interviews—real interviews—over, say, a 3- or 4-month period.

Mary Anne Thompson: I get surprised sometimes that individuals who are looking for a job internationally don't seem to remember the same type of advice they heard for looking for a job in their own hometown. A lot of these job hunting principles are exactly the same. I have very specific ideas about looking for a job in another country. I think taking advantage of that 90 days, typically, no-visa-required opportunity is definitely the way to go, but it needs to be done with some foresight and pre-planning. I think to land in a country and then start to reach out to people online is a waste of a plane ticket.

I mean, you should land in that country and have at least informational interviews already set up. At least you should try to do that. Look at your alumni group. Reach out to alumni that are there. Every country has a chamber of commerce in that country. I would certainly make sure that I learned enough about that culture. I wouldn't encourage going to most European countries in the summer.

That's lovely if that's when you have vacation or you're on a break from university. But that's when they're all on holiday. So once again, it's a waste of a plane ticket. They're on sabbatical. They're not there. Chambers of commerce that typically have meetings aren't there. Embassy personnel are in transit, so they have very little time to meet with you.

I'm a big believer in maybe taking a break from university or taking a break from your job in maybe a season that's not … Once again, I talk about Sweden in the middle of winter. You're not going to have any competition going door to door in Sweden when the weather's bad.

Anita Brick: That’s true. Very true.

Mary Anne Thompson: And so it's a very good time to go. Like I said, try to set up those informational interviews before you get there. Do your homework. When is the American Chamber of Commerce meeting? When is the American Club meeting? When is the Swedish Trade Council meeting? Show up, be counted. Be present.

The other thing I do, because I don't think you can be too visible, is I always offer to work the registration table. I say I'm coming to town; I don't mind sitting there and helping at your registration table. I typically wait at the back of the room to, look at the people who have come in, and I purposely go and sit down at a lunch table next to someone that I would like to meet instead of … just, I never take the first seat.

I think that's a mistake. That's too much rolling the dice. You may have … especially for your alumni—a lot of these individuals have very interesting work histories, work experiences. I think it's a very good idea, perhaps, to once again contact the Chamber of Commerce. I plan to be in Sweden in December. This is my specialty; I’m willing to be a speaker on this topic. They're always looking for speakers.

Offer to do a guest interviewer guest article for their online newspapers. Start becoming visible and making a name for yourself before you ever get there. Just like you should be doing for your job hunting in your own home country. Follow up is important; thank-you notes are important. Staying on somebody's radar is important. Took me a long time to find a job in Sweden, but every month I wrote to everybody I had met with, ever, in that country and reminded them that I was still out on the market looking for a job, and I resent my resume or my CV again. I'm smart enough to realize as soon as I walked out the door my resume went in the trash can.

Anita Brick: Right, and you have to balance that with being assertive without being obnoxious.

Mary Anne Thompson: Yes. And it's once again, how how does it work in that culture that— the two best jobs I ever had, besides running GoinGlobal—the first one I got when I was a waitress and I listened to a conversation at a table where I was waitressing, and then my job in the White House, in the Republican White House, came from a Democrat that I met at my gym. That's where jobs come from.

Anita Brick: Good illustration. A couple of things. Are there any specific functional skills that you think are most valued by multinational companies, or that are most attractive in any particular region? This is a question that one of the evening students had. He wanted to know if there were top functional skills that he should be developing and if there are any personal or interpersonal skills that he should cultivate if he wants to be sent to Europe or to the Asia division of his company.

Mary Anne Thompson: I certainly think any type of training that you're picking up in business school or graduate business school is right on par with what most multinationals are looking for, or even small mom-and-pop organizations. When I give a speech on this topic, I always try to encourage people to remember that they should be looking for … they're really looking cross-border, not necessarily internationally.

And in many cases … it's unfortunate. Most people target global 500 companies or Fortune 500 companies without recognizing that much smaller organizations are the groups where you're going to have much more value to them. They're going to have a lot less opportunity of attracting a local who has your type of education or work experience. Many times, I think—and that's another value of going on a local trip and really hitting the ground and kind of going door to door. But I think looking at smaller companies that are starting to do business outside the home country, maybe just doing business with one other country, that's an important skill set to remember: finance skills, accounting skills, marketing skills … The surveys that I read consistently, those come up no matter the type of organization and no matter the country, no matter the industry.

So I think any type of skill set along those lines that is business oriented, marketing oriented, management oriented—I mean, everything that you train for there in Chicago, as far as soft skills … It's interesting. I found a list the other day and instead of calling individuals … the term expat or expatriate has become kind of a dirty word in the global work environment because it too is starting to have a very pompous, holier-than-thou kind of connotation to it.

And some individuals who hear it now start to translate it. Oh, if you're looking to be an expat, then you must think that I'm going to pay your way over here—pay for your family, that you're going to get your apartment underwritten, you're going to get tax equalization, you're going to get language training. So the term expatriate has a connotation of all those benefits that are really going away for everybody except the top level of senior management.

That's another kind of reality check you need to come to grips with—that, unless you're at that very top level, most of those benefits have gone to the wayside. But anyway, instead of being called an expatriate, you should term yourself—and not everyone may be educated on this, but it's called an ISE: an international service employee.

So it's an ISE, and I'll slowly read the six attributes that I've read that are the key attributes to being a successful ISE. These are all kind of soft skills. just like that individual is interested in. I think they are multicultural. I don't think they pertain to any certain culture. What I would suggest is when you're listening to these six points that I'm about to share, that these are the type of issues that you choose to discuss in your resume or your CV, your cover letter, and then your interview.

The joy about writing a resume or a CV is that it only contains and shares what you want to share. All your dirty laundry or your faults may come out in the interview, but at the very beginning, what you write down in that application is up to you and you can brush it up, highlight it, not mention it at all. But the things that I'm about to tell you, I would try to think of instances of work experiences that you've had that highlight that you have these six attributes.

The first attribute is a high tolerance for change or stress. I can certainly say every one of these came into play for me when I lived in Sweden. I don't think the culture matters.

Number two, the ability to function well in an ambiguous situation. The point I'd like to make there is that the less ability you have to speak the language, the more ambiguous that situation is. Point number three is self-confidence. Point four, strong communication and people skills. Point five: adaptable and flexible. And the last point is a sincere interest in the culture.

And I want to segue from that last point on to an earlier question you had had about someone who said, you know, how can I document that this is a serious endeavor for me and not just a fluke? And I think if you've never traveled to that country, you've not made any attempts to learn the language, you haven't had any interaction with someone from that culture—you go into an interview situation and you don't know anything about the culture, the history of the firm, the history of the country—your resume or your CV is not structured according to culturally acceptable formats in that country … if you haven't taken those nominal steps, then it's the first thing that's going to show that prospective employer that indeed you do not have a sincere interest in that culture.

And just the flip side, if you're able to do the things that I've mentioned, if you've at least taken some proactive steps on your part, you have to put your money where your mouth is. It's just like getting another job. If you cannot document that you have the credentials, i.e., the cultural knowledge and experience to work there, then you don't belong really looking in that direction.

Anita Brick: Well, that's an interesting point. And there are a couple more questions if you have just a couple more minutes. One person is actually an executive recruiter focusing on sales and marketing, had been a sales and marketing professional and wants to go back to that side. Located in the Czech Republic and is not being taken seriously as a candidate because people are looking for nationals. It would seem to me that that person should have some solid relationships that he or she should be able to leverage.

Mary Anne Thompson: I agree, if for nothing else, then back to this informational interview, and I think that it's very important to go into a job hunt in any country, in any location—in Boise, Idaho—with a whole mantra of, all I want is an informational interview. It's very nonthreatening. You're not putting that person on the spot to hire you.

You're not giving that person an opportunity to say, listen, no need for you to drop by because we really don't have any job openings. This individual in the Czech Republic is sitting on a Rolodex to die for. He knows everybody he needs to know in that industry. So I think trying to reach out to people—in a way, it must be awkward. I would certainly say realistically, I'd reach out to probably past clients or someone that I was not currently working with. It would be a very awkward conversation to have probably, compromising their current situation, but I would have informational interviews.

I would also try to better understand, once again in the informational interview setting, why is it that it appears that they prefer to hire a local? My experience is that the only reason they prefer to hire a local is, number one, usually the cost factor because a local is so much cheaper. I've just returned from the Czech Republic. If this individual does not speak the local language, I think that it would be very difficult to be a practitioner in a lot of industries in the Czech Republic, even though it's becoming really a mecca for a lot of multinationals that are now being placed there.

But I think learning the language … it might be their polite way of saying we prefer to work with locals because, hey buddy, you don't know the language. I find it interesting what got that individual there to begin with. That's a very interesting move. The Czech Republic, it's not an easy place to land. I find it amazing that they live there without the language.

Anita Brick: Well, maybe the person will listen. And if that person has another question, they can follow up and send it on and I'll forward it over to you.

Mary Anne Thompson: Absolutely. I think what a great opportunity. You're there. And I say reach out and really try to understand what you have in your own credentials that is going to make you look like a far superior choice than a local.

Anita Brick: Couple more things. One person wanted to know the differences between networking, interview styles, and resume formats between the US and the UK. Would that be covered, would you say, on the site?

Mary Anne Thompson: It's all covered in detail, per category in the GoinGlobal resources. And certainly every country and every culture is different to some level in interviewing styles and topics of conversation, mannerisms, how you dress, the way you shake someone's hand, who enters the room first, how you present the business card, or what the interviewing environment is going to be.

And the same thing for a resume. In a CV … the only place a resume is called a resume is in the United States. Yeah, everywhere else in the world it's called a curriculum vitae. In many locations, still outside the United States, you're talking about a CV that's full of a lot of personal information that typically has a picture attached to it, and no way has the detailed information that we have in an American resume.

I had a long conversation at 6:00 this morning with an interview with two individuals, one from Sweden, one from Poland, how not only unpopular, but negatively frowned upon, volunteer experience is.

Anita Brick: Interesting.

Mary Anne Thompson: So there's things that you would never gather that are such a no-brainer and so positively viewed in your own country, actually are negatively viewed in another country. And I'm sure that's news to you. And isn't that a surprise?

Anita Brick: Yeah, that is very surprising. Well, it's good you all have … People on the call, students and alums, can definitely take advantage of this resource because it is on the website. It's something the GSB pays for and provides free to students and alums. Two kind of ancillary questions. What about from the other side? What about … there is someone who is in Switzerland and used a style of interviewing where it was a group interview?

So .. many candidates, 1 or 2 hiring managers, and it wasn't really well received. Are there things from the other side that also need to be considered if you're in the hiring process?

Mary Anne Thompson: Yes. If you were on the other side of the bench, I think you have to take into account that this person is outside of their norm, and you have to take that into consideration. I think that the best recommendation when you are in a potentially multicultural interview situation is to do your homework. And if you're an American, for instance, tone it down.

Anita Brick: This person was a hiring manager. Yes.

Mary Anne Thompson: Well, I'm sure the candidates weren't ready for it, and I think they weren't culturally comfortable. Probably many of them, you know, speaking up and talking about their own skills and taking much initiative …

Anita Brick: Some people are … in fact, there are companies that are just cropping up all over the place who are helping individuals create video interviews. Are you seeing that those are playing out? We don't see them very much here, but do you see them playing out in any parts of the world?

Mary Anne Thompson: I don't think you can attach a country to having a preference for a video type interview. That being said, I really think you have to do your homework about presenting or providing the type of resume, a format and the general term that's really been requested by that prospective employer. I know from my own standpoint, if I get a video link or I get anything that's not viewable right on my computer screen directly, I delete it. I have too much to do in my day to go and look at a video.

I also think the individual has to evaluate the industry. They are looking for a job, right? So if you're looking for something in a media realm, then perhaps that's more acceptable. Under no circumstances do I think just that type of format is satisfactory. So I think if you have that format … you have to have a regular written standard format or CV. And I also recommend, if you have been or you're aware of an actual job, nothing beats printing out your resume or CV, creating a cover letter, finding out who in that H.R office is responsible for positioning in that job, sticking it in an envelope with a stamp.

Anita Brick: So it won't look out of touch? You think it will just make you differentiate?

Mary Anne Thompson: Yeah. And I would also not even put it in a regular envelope with a stamp. I would FedEx, UPS, something that will arrive in a flat envelope. I think that's a very important task to take.

Anita Brick: So just to summarize, what do you think are the three most important things that someone can do to successfully contemplate and manage a cross-regional transition?

Mary Anne Thompson: I think I'll start with the end in mind. Go back to the sincere interest in the culture. I think you do yourself a disservice to be seriously thinking about working in another country until you have experienced that culture on some level. So I think the first thing you need to do is to try to better understand the culture, both from a social perspective and a professional perspective.

I think you need to try to reach out and identify locals in your community, in your workforce, on the university level, who are already working in that or from that culture. Try to interact with them. Do you interact well socially there? Reach out to your alumni. Try to connect with people who have actually gone to these locations and worked.

As I said at the beginning of our discussion today, it's a lot different experience to work somewhere and live somewhere than it is to travel there on vacation for two weeks.

Anita Brick: Good point.

Mary Anne Thompson: So I think the reality check of it, I think to get realistic about it, understand what the work week is, put yourself in those informational interviews so you can better understand if you even have the credentials that will stand up to that type of scrutiny.

And can you be competitive on a global level? Certainly, if your main interest is in working internationally, and the less you have in the way of experience or a prove connection to that culture or connection, if you don't speak the language, the less tenable your credentials are, the more important it is that you try to identify an environment or a location or a country that not everybody's wanting to work in.

So try to identify a location that's really going to help you beef up your credentials and make up for the fact that you're not coming to the table the first time out with as strong a resume or CV as you would like to have. And certainly it's continually documented that the smaller a company you work for, the more out of place really the physical location is of the country or city you're working on, the more responsibility you're going to be given at an early stage, so you'll be able to fast track your credentials if you purposely put yourself in a tougher situation to begin with.

The last thing I'd like to kind of share with you along those lines, Anita: some research that we just completed on future demographics, which is very interesting, that the greatest population growth in the next 30 years will be in the following countries. India is no surprise to anybody, but I bet you'll be surprised to understand the greatest opportunity is going to be in Brazil, Nigeria, Uganda, Pakistan, Congo, Ethiopia, and China.

Anita Brick: Makes sense. Those seem to be areas where there is bubbling of growth and sounds like from the research, it's going to really take off. It is even a greater degree because obviously some of those are pretty robust now.

Thank you for taking all this time.

Mary Anne Thompson: Well, before we get off the interview here, I want to make sure that your listeners understand that GoinGlobal has both country specific information … We've now come out with USA City Career Guides. So we have the same type of career information for 40 cities throughout the United States. We also, for your international listeners, we have a listing now for every state in the United States of H-1B employers.

And I think the other two key aspects of the resource that—Chicago, thank you for subscribing to GoinGlobal—provides is a listing of who the major employers are for 31 countries in the world. And then we have a jobs and internship database, which has half a million work and internship opportunities in the database, all of which are updated every night at midnight.

Anita Brick: Wow. Well, listen, Mary Anne, thank you so much. Thank you for taking the time. And thank you all for listening. This is Anita Brick with CareerCast at the Chicago GSB. Keep advancing.