Building Relationships for a Lifetime of Success Bob Burg

Anita Brick: Hi. I’m Anita Brick. And welcome to CareerCast at Chicago Booth. To help you advance in your career. Today we're delighted to be speaking with Bob Burg. Bob believes that the amount of money one makes is directly proportional to how many people the person serves. I guess, Bob, that's what Go-Givers is all about, and I know we're going to talk about that today.

Bob has addressed audiences from 50 to 16,000, and his book, which is how we all connected, because Booth refers to your book a lot, The Go-Giver and Go-Givers Sell More. Your book has been translated into 21 languages and shot up to number six on the Wall Street Journal. There's a new book that's come out that Bob and his coauthor, John David Mann, have just released.

It's called It's Not About You, and it shows how focusing on others is the best way to obtain amazing success in one's own life and in business. Bob, thank you so much for making the time. It's a great honor to have you on our call.

Bob Burg: Anita, I'm just honored to be here, and it's really a privilege for me to feel that you all have found it to be of value.

Anita Brick: One of the reasons it's a great book— and people struggle with relationships. What do I do? How do I give? How do I build a relationship? Some people view it as a very transactional, tactical kind of thing, and the whole idea of giving seems antithetical to them. Let's just start off. People talk about relationships are time-consuming. They're intimidating. How does someone start from that go-giver spirit by giving?

Bob Burg: That's a great question. And let's bring it back a little bit to just even defining the term. What do we mean by being a go-giver? What do we mean by, you know, as we use the term giving in this case, the premise of the book is simply that shifting one's focus—and that's the key focus—from getting to giving. Now when we say giving, we mean constantly and continually providing value to others. So by shifting one's focus from getting to giving, it's not only a nice way to live life, but it's a very financially profitable way as well.

So we first understand that really it's a business strategy. It's a way of living life and doing business. Instead of just tactical, we want it to be principle based. So as we begin relationships, we understand that there's a very basic premise even to that.

I talked about that in my original book called Endless Referrals, which is really the how-to aspect, in a sense, of The Go-Giver. What Ernesto, the restaurateur, says to Joe early in the book… He calls it the golden rule of business, of sales, of networking, if you will. And that is that, all things being equal, people will do business with and refer business to those people they know, like, and trust. Your goal, if you will, is to develop relationships with people in which they feel so good about you. They know you, like you, trust you.

They want to see you succeed. They want to help you accomplish your goals as you want to help them accomplish theirs. And they really want to be a part of your life. And really, that's what it's about. It never has to be intimidating, because the focus is not on you. See, if the focus was on yourself, it would be intimidating because you've got to go in there with your elevator speech and talking about yourself.

No, instead what you do is you shift that. You focus on the other person. When we do this, it's really less intimidating because you're knowing that you don't have to make yourself the issue. It's not about you, it's about the other person.

Anita Brick: So give us a couple of ideas. What are some ways that someone can start doing that right now?

Bob Burg: Sure. Well, let's say you meet somebody in a conversation somewhere. This could be at a business professional function. It could be at a charity event. It could be at your kid's ballgame. But it really doesn't matter. But you meet someone and you ask about them. Let's say you meet someone whose name is Gary and Gary's vice president of sales, but also an on-the-street salesperson for Acme Office Products. They sell high-end copying machines. This is what he tells you when you ask him what he does.

I have questions that I call feel-good questions … or simply questions that, by their very nature, make this person feel good about themselves, about the situation, about you. And the reason this is so is because they're focused on the other person. When you focus on the other person, a connection is much more easily made. So when you say, Gary, how did you get started selling copying machines? Or how did you get started as an office products professional? This is not a slick question. It's not a clever question. It's a very mundane question. But it's a question people love to answer.

I call it the movie-of-the-week question because you're making this person the star. This is really the first signal to this person that you're a person of value because you're …. They can tell your goal was not focusing on yourself, but on them. And they're going to answer this question, and they're going to enjoy it because it's not a question they get asked very much.

You can then ask, you know, what do you enjoy most about what you do? It might come across more like, wow, you must have had some fascinating experiences. What do you enjoy most about what you do? Sometimes flies in the face of most traditional sales teaching, by the way, where we're taught to immediately find this person's pain, right? You know, reach into their heart and tear it out the minute you meet them.

But really, what is the use of it when you think of it? First of all, this person doesn't know you well enough yet for that to be a legitimate kind of thing. But also they may not even be a direct prospect for you, but you never know who they know, and so do you really want the first conversation with them in which your business is really probably not going to come up, at least not to a significant degree, … that's not the point of this kind of conversation. Do you really want their association with you to be something negative? I mean, you might as well just say, what do you hate most about what you do? And while we're at it, how about this wretched excuse for a life you live? No. Instead, be very positive and ask them what they enjoy most.

Which doesn't mean that there's never a time to find a person's pain. It might be that if you are ever in the position where you're presenting to them, you might have to tactfully and diplomatically communicate why they have more pain from not using your products or services than from doing so. But that's not the issue, because right now, this just simply isn't the time and place.

But you know, one question— we talked about this in Go-Givers Sell More, so this will be familiar to many of the people listening—is what I call the one key question. And that's simply how can I know if somebody I'm talking to would be a good prospect for you? Because what you've done is you've, again, you've separated yourself from everyone else.

You have been focused totally on them instead of yourself. And they understand this. Now, here's the key. You know, you might ask, well, what if this person is not a salesperson, so they don't need prospects per se? Maybe they're the CEO, maybe they're in the accounting department.

Anita Brick: Maybe they're a career changer.

Bob Burg: Exactly. But it also could be how can I know if somebody I'm talking to would be a good contact for you or a good connection for you? Or how can I know if somebody I'm speaking with is someone you'd like to meet?

I remember the time I was talking to a guy who was the CEO of a company. Within the conversation, it came out that his daughter had graduated college and so forth. I asked what she majored in, what she was studying, what she was looking to do, and my key question: how can I know somebody I'm talking to would be a good connection for Beth in her career path. And his eyes lighted right up because he could see this is a person who gets it.

And by the way, I ended up putting him together with a person who ended up giving Beth an internship, and I ended up doing some serious business with this person when the time was right. The key is this: people say, is it always that easy? And the answer is yes, it is always that easy to make a connection if you're focused on providing value to others.

Anita Brick: Not to interrupt you, but you also have to be sincere because you could do this in a really fakey way. It could blow up in your face.

Bob Burg: Exactly. The key is, and that's where the law of authenticity comes in, because it's got to be emanating from you. So if you're doing this in a way to manipulate another person, first of all, you're not going to feel good about it. Secondly, they're going to kind of get it. People these days—and I don't know if this is because of the internet or just more information out there, whatever—people have become more sophisticated.

And I think people can tell two things. They can tell when someone's operating from their true authentic core. But I think they can also much more easily tell when someone's being a, I guess the Latin, the correct Latin term would be phony baloney, right? You know, when they're not really operating from their true core. The entire essence of this is that you really do want to help this person, that you really do want to provide value to them. And I think most people do fall into that category.

Anita Brick: Yeah, I would agree with you. I think that some people are nervous and they try too hard. One of the questions that came in, I think you've actually already answered, was from an Exec MBA student talking about how he believes in what you are doing and realizes that it's not always a straight line. So sometimes you start this relationship and maybe it goes the way you want to, maybe it doesn't. I mean, his belief is that in the end, for him it's always worked out, but it's not necessarily that every step along the way is going to necessarily advance you toward your goal. You may have some side steps or missteps along the way as well.

Bob Burg: He makes a great point. It's sort of like—and we use the example of planting a lot of seeds. Not every seed is going to become what you would choose for it to be, but you put enough seeds out there and you take care of it and you nurture it. And enough are— in fact, you're going to get more than what you were even expecting, probably.

But we also don't want to make this a matter of luck, because it's not a matter of luck. It's a matter of doing the correct things. You know, it's interesting too, because there are people who say, well, with the Go-Giver, are you and John—my coauthor, of course, John David Mann, who was really the storyteller who made this come alive. I'm more of a how-to person. He's a great storyteller, a great writer. But we're often asked, what are you and John saying? That the point of this story is that nice guys, nice gals, nice people finish first?

And the answer is no, not at all. That's not what we're saying. Now, being nice is a great thing. When you're nice, you attract more people to you. It's certainly easier to be successful when you're nice. You've got more people on your side. But that's not enough. And I think I can say that with confidence, because you and I and everyone listening to this conversation, we all know plenty of people who are simply nice people who we would also have to describe as simply broke people.

So while being nice is a great thing, it's not enough in and of itself to be nice if you want to be successful. Success is also a matter of doing the correct things in the process that allows a person to be successful and finish first. So when you're building these relationships, does everyone you know lead to an instant sale, a referral, a job offer?

No, of course not. But if you're doing it correctly, and the more correctly you do it, the more people with whom you do this with in a way that you are really centered on providing value to them, the more great things are going to happen. Not because of some, you know, woo woo out-there reason, but because as you're planting the seeds of goodwill, you are becoming positioned as an asset of value to others. And as you do this, you attract more high-quality people into your life.

Anita Brick: Oh, absolutely. And how do you make the time for it? One of the questions came from an alum and said, hi Bob, I agree with your approach. I found that giving before receiving, even if it doesn't seem like you're going to get much in return, it does yield benefits. How do you structure and organize go-giving in view of a 14- to 16-hour-a-day job?

Bob Burg: I think it's like anything else: we make the time to do what we value. Let's define networking because I think if we don't, you know, different people listen to the call. We all might be talking about different things because we all come from our own belief system. There's plenty of people who look at networking as being, you know, you go to a place, you tell about yourself, you give your elevator speech or—the word, I can't stand the elevator pitch. To me, a pitch is something you do to someone, not for someone. Well, I believe it's good to have an other-oriented benefit statement. Really, when you first meet someone, they don't care. So the key is to focus on them anyway.

Anita Brick: Not to cut you off, but in reality, how do you make the times you're working 14 to 16 hours a day, let's say 12 conservatively, and you tack on another two hours for commuting, and then you have a family; a lot of people are going to school—even if they're executives there, they might be in the Exec MBA Program. How do you, in the course of your day, make this part of your life as opposed to one more thing on my plate that I have to do?

Bob Burg: You will add something to your plate. There's nothing magic. With the internet, with social media, this makes it much more viable. You can create great relationships online. But again, let me define networking as the cultivating of mutually beneficial give and take or give and receive win–win relationships when done with the focus on the other person, their needs, their wants, their desires.

Now you're putting yourself in a position of developing those relationships where people know, like, and trust you. It doesn't have to take a long time. What you want to do is just simply ask yourself, what is the best way to provide value to this person as they—not I, but as they—would consider to be value, you know?

And so this is why I'm working 14 to 16 hours a day. Then I have my family and commute time and this and that. How do I add one more thing? Well, you've got a challenge because you know, what do they say? The only free cheese is in the mousetrap. There isn't something for nothing. So you are going to put in some extra time or you're going to take part of your day that you're doing something else and you're going to … if you value building a network enough because you really understand the benefits of networking, you're going to find a way to take some of your day, and you're going to understand that networking is not an expense. It's a benefit.

Anita Brick: Got it. There were three questions that I found really interesting. They were all about when do you start getting. So one person said, how do you know when it's OK to ask for something? And then another person said, I seem to do most of the giving, and I receive little in return. And then the third person said, I'm good at that initial connection, but it's not sustainable over time, and I often don't receive anything. I often give more than I receive. And it sounds like maybe there is some miscue with all three of them. Maybe you can help us out with that.

Bob Burg: Yeah there is, and let's go with the last one first. If they are creating an initial connection that works, there's no reason for that person not to be responsive to them. When they say then things stop, what do they mean? Do they mean they stop? In other words, they make one connection and then stop?

Anita Brick: Make another connection, but they just are not getting any response.

Bob Burg: Well, and you might not with one connection. Why should that person respond to you now? I mean, personally, I return all my calls and I return every single correspondence, but I realize that's not everyone, and there are people who are not going to necessarily because you call them. They're not going to necessarily respond to you. So when he says, I'm good at creating an initial connection, I think what this person maybe means—and of course, again, I don't know, so please forgive me for also assuming it might mean they're good at picking up the phone and making the call or sending an email, I wouldn't describe that as a connection. I describe that as sending an email or a phone or showing up in person.

But again, what does that tell us? You know, it doesn't really say that any connection has really been made. So this person who's probably contacted by many, many, many other people is thinking, OK, this is just one more person who needs something from me. Person who asked, how do I know when to ask? Well, you know, once you know that the know, like, and trust relationship is there—and you'll know; it's intuitive—that's when you can ask. But it doesn't mean you have to ask.

For people who feel as though they give an awful lot of giving and not a lot of receiving, sort of how Joe felt at the beginning of the story, there's a couple reasons for that, too. One is this. And again, these are options. These are not etched in stone, because it depends on the person. One is what you call giving might not be what that other person feels as a value. Remember, what's of value to you isn't necessarily of value to them. So you've got to make sure that what you are giving, providing value is thought of as value to the other person.

It also might mean that you are not feeling worthy. And I don't mean to sound touchy-feely here, and this is not what I'm saying, but you might not feel worthy of receiving. One of the things John David Mann and I have found with this book is that many people could relate to the first four laws. They had trouble with the fifth law, and that's the law of receptivity.

And there's a reason for this. We have been brought up in our society as a whole, you know—whether through a combination of upbringing, environment, schooling, news media, television shows, movies—with a real lack of consciousness, you know, notice any movie, any hit movie, there's always two types of people in it. There's the good people who are always poor but happy, and they're always in some way being stepped on, put down, put off, or taken advantage of by the rich people, who are always portrayed as mean and nasty and cowardly.

You see that in just about every major hit movie in some way, not as the main plot, but as a sub message. And we hear these messages. How often were you asked when you were growing up, would you rather be wealthy or happy? That's the treacherous dichotomy, the false dilemma, the unnecessary use of the word. Or, are you a nice person or do you finish first? Of course, the answer is both.

So are you a giver or a receiver? The answer's both. So that's another reason. When people feel they're not receiving, it's because they may not have the feeling that they deserve to receive.

Anita Brick: It's a good point. How do you know— I think this is a real dilemma because I hear this a lot. Maybe you say, you know, I'm open to receiving. I think that we've had a nice interaction. I've asked the other person about how they got from being an engineer to going into management consulting, or some variation of that.

They were very nice to me. They said, I'm happy to help you. If you'd like, send me your resume. I'm happy to take a look at it, pass it on to recruiting or whatever they say. And then it sort of stalls out there. So the person who had the conversation thought they made the connection because the person even volunteered to mention their name, pass on their resume—radio silence.

Bob Burg: It doesn't end there, though, because here's what a person really would be best advised to do after that. And that is, first of all, to send a handwritten, personalized thank-you note to that person, not an email, even though that's how everybody does it. That's the reason why you don't do it that way. You send a personalized, handwritten note.

I have a specialized note card that I have. It's eight and a half by three inches, so it fits inside a number 10 envelope and it's got your basic information on it. And this makes you stand out. Anyone listening can go to the page and take a look by going to www.Burg/Notecard. They can take a look at and of course with yours, make it specific to you and write it in blue ink. Because blue ink has been proved to be more effective, both personally and business wise, than black ink. And then put it inside a number 10 envelope—not as a postcard, inside a number 10 envelope—and address the envelope in blue ink and then put a regular. So not a meter stamp, but a regular stamp or a commemorative stamp.

Send it out that very day or that very next day and simply say thank you. It was a pleasure meeting you. And whatever happens, you know, thank you for your counsel and advice. Please don't say if you can help me find a job or if you can do this or if … make it just focused on it was a pleasure speaking with you, nice to learn about you and blah blah blah, what have you and do that.

And then you want to be able to follow up if there's something you find out. Do a search on this person, find out something about this person or their alma mater or some charity they're involved in, and send an article of interest to them, or in some way do something that shows value to them. Harvey Mackay talks about this wonderfully in his book Use Your Head to Get Your Foot in the Door. He has some of the best strategies to find the job you want and to absolutely separate yourself from everyone else.

It's a wonderful book, and I would recommend it to everyone who is in a job search and really wants to find a great, great career job. It's not a matter of talking to somebody once. This might really not be what someone wants to hear, but building a relationship does not mean you have a conversation with someone. It just isn't it. That's just one part. It's having a conversation where you're focused on that other person. But that's just the beginning.

Anita Brick: I totally agree. I will tweet and email, but I will also send handwritten notes because you're right, they are remarkable for us. Like you said, they need to be sincere and specific and really focused on the other person.

So let's say you do these things and you send an article, you find something you think would be of interest to the other person. How do you get their attention? I don't know about you, but I do my best to respond to absolutely everyone. And at the same time, I also know that I have a certain amount of time and I need to figure out how to allocate it. How do you rise in terms of priority to the person that you really want to respond to you?

Bob Burg: Well, understand that most people aren't going to do these extra things that you're doing. They're not going to research—you might think they are, but they're not. Some will, but not most. And so the more you do—and Harvey's big on research. And, you know, the more you research someone going in for your own confidence as much as being able to relate to them, because you never know when something is going to come up.

That's one thing that makes you stand out. Sending that handwritten note. I know it sounds very simple, but you'd be amazed how you stand out from everyone else, especially in today's technology age. Connecting someone with someone else. You know, being able to refer someone to someone else or what have you. Whatever way you can find that will genuinely add value to that other person to the degree that you do that, that's the degree that you are going to stand out.

And don't get discouraged if it doesn't happen with one person. No, you want to plant those seeds, and that means you do this with different people. But I'll tell you, 99 percent of the time when I hear someone say, networking doesn't work, what they're thinking of is networking totally different. They're thinking it is: you hand out your business cards, tell people about yourself, and wait for good things to happen. You know, and if it doesn't, it means it doesn't work.

Anita Brick: You're absolutely right. This is a paradox here, and maybe you can shed some light on it. So you go in and you help the other person; at the same time, if you do it with sort of the focus and intent that you're going to gain something from it, you usually don't. If you go into it really, truly focusing on the other person and not being selfless, but really focusing on the other person, invariably comes back and the relationship is built and it blossoms.

How do you prevent it from saying, OK, I'm going to do this, I'm going to put so much effort forth and here's what I expect. I mean, asking a person, but you're in your mind, you're thinking, OK, I'll take it this far. And Bob better respond and do this for me. Otherwise I'm done with Bob.

Bob Burg: Right? This is what I call having posture, emotional posture. One definition I have for posture is when you care, but not that much. What do I mean by that? Well, it's not that you don't care, it's that you're not emotionally attached to the result. You know, we could really define posture on a more legitimate term.

We can define posture as the lack of emotional attachment to a specific desire. That doesn't mean you don't care. It means that when you're focused on another person and providing value to them, you're not doing it with attachment. You're providing value because that's what you do. You provide value to others knowing that as you do this, that maybe not with this particular person, maybe not with the next person, maybe not with the next person.

But as you do this and plant these seeds, many more are going to come back to you. And again, there's nothing. And I always make the case with this, and I maybe overdo this, it's killing the fly with the sledgehammer type of thing. But it's so important to communicate that there's nothing woo woo magical or mystical about this. It's for good reason that the more value you provide, you know, genuine value as we talked about, the more people see you as an asset of value. The more people get to know you, to like you, to trust you, and the more things come back to you because of that.

Some people say, well, give without expectation. You know, I don't quite agree with that, but I know what they're saying. What they're saying is without attachment. See, I always expect good things to happen, you know? I mean, why live life if you don't expect you know, with good without good expectations? But I do try to live—and I have to work on it, of course—always to live without attachment. In other words, you care, but you're OK either way. Their decision is not going to help or harm your peace of mind.

Your peace of mind is independent upon their decisions. So what that allows you to do, and I actually learned this from reading a book, Rudy's Rules, by Rudy Ruettiger. He was the— remember that? At Notre Dame? Great guy. And in a story in his book he had a conversation with Joe Montana, who later, you know, Hall of Fame quarterback for the San Francisco 49ers, who at that time was the quarterback for Notre Dame.

And even back then, Montana was known for his, you know, how cool he was under pressure, often bringing his team back or, you know, snatching the victory from the jaws of defeat. And he once said to Joe, and he talks about this in the book, he once said to Joe, Joe, how do you do it? You know, how do you remain so calm and cool under pressure?

And Montana said to him, the key is, Rudy, you've got to care. But not that much. And that’s it. So you've got to play the game. That doesn't mean you don't play hard. You play to win. You do your best, you're prepared, you do it, but you don't allow yourself to be attached to the outcome. And that's what allows you to actually create better outcomes.

Anita Brick: It makes sense. I think it's tricky for people, though. I think it is. If we have a passion, we want to achieve that so much that we care. We care too much, we're attached to it and all of those things. And then I think what happens is that if things don't go the way that a person wants it, they either give up or they resent the people who are either succeeding and/or the people who didn't help them. And I think that becomes a person's undoing sometimes.

Bob Burg: Oh, that's a terrible burden to bear. Absolutely. If it is to be, it's up to the individual to want to make those connections, to make the contacts, to find a way to provide value to people, to find a way to get themselves out there in a way that's very productive rather than counterproductive, and to stay with it until the results that they want happen.

Anita Brick: Absolutely. You have to be able to mobilize all the resources you need to make things happen. Does it change? Does the approach change, if you're an entrepreneur starting up a company?

Bob Burg: It's interesting: approaches change situationally and in context. But the principles are all the same. We talk about the law of value, in terms of an entrepreneur or in terms of a business person. The law of value says your true worth is determined by how much more you give in value then you take in payment. But what does that really mean?

It certainly doesn't mean you're not making a profit. You know, everybody in the book, they were wealthy, they were doing well. And that's certainly not something that we would ever endorse. Being a go-giver does not mean you give things away for free. It does not mean you don't make a profit. It does not mean you're a saint, a martyr, or a doormat.

You understand what that saying means? We need to understand the difference between price and value. Price is a dollar figure, concrete. It's finite. It is what it is. Value, on the other hand, is the relative worth or desirability of a thing to the end user. In other words, what is it about this thing, this product, this service, this concept, this opportunity, this whatever, that brings with it so much worth or value that someone will exchange their money for it and be just ecstatic that they did, while you make a very, very healthy profit.

And a very quick example would be, let's say, for instance, you decide to hire an accountant to do your taxes and the accountant charges, just name a round figure. The accountant charges you $2,000. That's his fee or his price, but he saves you $6,000 in value. He saves you 25 hours of time, and he provides you with the peace of mind and security of knowing it was done correctly.

So we see, first of all, value can be both concrete in terms of the $6,000. It can be very conceptual in terms of the peace of mind, which probably is worth more than anything else.

Anita Brick: Right.

Bob Burg: And here's the thing. He gave you more in value than he took in payment. He gave you well over $6,000 in value. But he also made a very, very healthy profit, which he should. And that's the kind of relationship we want to have with anyone with whom we do business. And the way you get that way is through focus—by focusing on the value, not the money.

That's why John and I say that money is simply an echo of value. It's the thunder to value’s lightning. You focus on the value. You communicate that value. You provide that value in an exchange, you're going to receive the money.

Anita Brick: But where—if I'm just in the conceptual phase and I'm looking for help starting up a company, where would I add value to you?

Bob Burg: Oh well, there's many ways to add value. And we talk about, you know, value in Go-Givers Sell More. The five elements of value, which are excellence, consistency, attention, empathy, and appreciation. But how do you—before you're actually doing business with someone, how do you add value to them? Well, let's say you're meeting them somewhere. Again, we go back to that Chamber of Commerce meeting, charity event, kids ball game, what have you.

And you meet them. You ask them questions about themselves that make them feel good about themselves. And that's a good start right there. But what about this? How about connecting them with others? How about making their life better in some way? How about sending them a thank-you note of gratitude just for meeting them and letting them know if I can ever refer business your way, I certainly will?

Again, any time you can connect two good people together, first of all, you’re expanding your own sphere of influence. But you're also solidifying a new relationship that you're creating. You're not necessarily going to get business right away, but that also doesn't mean it won't be right away. People often ask, well, how long do these relationships take to get to the point where you know them, like them, and trust them? Excuse me—where they know, like, and trust you? Even after that's the case, how long until business happens?It kind of goes like this. It could take a month, six months, a year. It could happen immediately. It could happen two days from now or a week from now. And here's why. Here's how it happens quickly.

Let's say you meet someone and it happens to be, you know, again, you're asking them about themselves, but they ask about you and you certainly tell them what you do. Let's say this person, it just happens to be that they have a need for what you do. Well, as long as when they tell you they have a need for what you do, you don't try to firehose them with information about it and try too hard to close them, the chances are they're going to be very open to the idea of listening to you and perhaps doing business with you.

They may also not need what you have to offer right now, but they may know someone who does and they can be a good referral or connection for you. It might be a week later, or it might be two weeks later. That's why it's important to keep yourself in front of them in a way that's very non-threatening and non-salesy, but the more you can touch them with value on an ongoing basis—which doesn't mean every day; it might mean every month, it might be every few weeks, it might be when something comes up, you put them in a Google search, and when their name comes up or something comes up that you know is of interest to them, boom, send that to her. Those little things you can do. It's as simple as referring good people, becoming a connector just like Gus in the story. You can do it on a very small scale.

You'd be surprised at how fast this actually happens and how business begins. I've had more people who, once they made the shift and started using the go-giver system and methodology, their business picked up very, very quickly. So please don't think that because you're focused on the other person that things don't happen faster. They actually happen faster than if you're focused on yourself and really looking at that other person as just a dollar sign.

Anita Brick: Good point. And I think all of this applies to job search.

Bob Burg: Absolutely. A job search is a job in and of itself, and we know that. And so you make a wonderful, wonderful point. Everything we're talking about is in alignment and applies with finding a job.

Anita Brick: Great. Do you have time for one more question?

Bob Burg: Absolutely. This is my pleasure and honor.

Anita Brick: Great. We're glad we're having this convo. I know people like to leave with something they can apply right away. You've given us a lot of really good ideas. Sending articles to people, making sure obviously that your focus is on adding value to them, writing handwritten notes—which, you know, I'm a huge fan of doing those. What are three things in addition to that, that someone can begin to shift their perspective and take action?

Bob Burg: Today, I think the first thing is what you said: shift your focus. Go from being “I” focused or “I” oriented to being “other” focused. That's a big shift for a lot of people. Yeah, and that's OK. And it takes work. And please, if you're listening to this and that's not natural for you, don't let that stop you. Do the action. Do the thing. Feeling follows action, OK? Put another way, action precedes feeling, not the other way around.

Number two, make it a point to connect. And we just talked about this a little while ago. But this is so key because it's one of the best things you can do. It's a lot of fun and it is the most effective thing you can do. Get into the habit of connecting good people with other good people. Now do this appropriately. What I see a lot of times, people on the internet, I can't tell you how many times I get an email from someone that sent me and another person an email saying, oh, the two of you have to meet. There's synergy or something like, you should do something together, or you can help promote each other's books.

To me, while they're seeing that as being of value, I don't because this puts me in a position now where I now have to answer back because I answer all my correspondence and I don't want to hurt someone's feelings. So I have to answer back. I have to now explain to someone why at this time I'm not able to blah blah, blah and so forth. It's always true. But you know, puts me on the spot. In other words, to me it's not appropriate. What they should do is instead, if they want to connect people, something on the internet, ask the people first. I'd like to connect you with so-and-so. I think they would be a great contact for you. May I make an introduction?

And then the third thing is just provide value-based touches. Whenever you are going to touch someone, make sure there's some value attached to it. Don't just call because you're touching base. That's a waste of their time and a perceived waste of their time. Have a reason, have some kind of value to them that you can offer.

And by the way, some people think, well, I don't really have anything to offer. So let's say someone's going to mentor me and take me under their wing and so forth. But why do I have to give to them first? First of all, you don't have to give to them first. Don't get caught up in that. You know what I'm saying? You give the best you can, and you provide value the best you can.

But here's the thing: when you have a mentor, the way that you give to them, that you provide value, is through gratitude. It's just through expressing your gratitude and it's trying, whenever you can, to do whatever you can to find out what you can do that's above and beyond to help add value to their life.

You know, again, don't get caught up in the philosophy that well, I have to give first. And what you do is you do your best to always provide value, as you said. And I just love what you said: to make sure it's genuine and authentic to someone's life. And don't put too much pressure on yourself. Have fun with the process. Make a game out of it. Keep yourself from getting too attached, or consciously work on staying unattached to the outcome.

And I'm telling you, you start doing this and you're going to see great results. You're going to feel terrific about yourself, and you're going to be that person that other people look to as the connector and as that center of influence.

Anita Brick: That's great, Bob, because I know this is sort of one of those black boxes that people feel like there's a secret, and what you've done is you've demystified it. Just go out, create as much value, thank people when they do help you. And as you said, also let them know specifically how they helped you because that makes them feel good too.

Bob Burg: Oh, absolutely.

Anita Brick: Bob, thank you so much. I know you're a very busy guy, so thank you so much for making the time to share your wisdom with Booth students and alums.

Bob Burg: Thank you so much. I thank Booth and everyone involved with Booth. And again, just thank you so much for having me on. I'm really honored.

Anita Brick: And Bob has given us a lot of really good ideas. Sort of beat me to the punch. I was going to tell you about his website, but as a reminder, Bob's website, lots of really great information in it, is www.Burg.com. And thank you all for listening. This is Anita Brick with CareerCast at Chicago Booth. Keep advancing.