Become the Entrepreneurial Fire

Anita Brick: Hi, this is Anita Brick, and welcome to CareerCast at Chicago Booth. To help you advance in your career. Today we are super delighted to have as our guest, Elisa Schmitz. She is an award-winning Latina entrepreneur founding iParenting, a digital media company acquired by the Walt Disney Company and author of an amazingly wonderful, inspiring, and practical book called Become the Fire.

She has been a newspaper columnist, magazine editor, radio and video host, and creator of content and marketing programs for Fortune 500 companies. Elisa became an engaged member of various coveted business networks after she and 30seconds.com were selected for inclusion in Springboard Enterprise Media Tech accelerator in New York City, Blackbox Google for Entrepreneurs accelerator in Silicon Valley, and one that is near and dear to our heart, is yStem accelerator at 1871, in Chicago.

She has transformed a number of barriers to get there. As the daughter of a Puerto Rican mother and Yugoslavian immigrant father, Elisa knows what it means to be an outsider, learning to use her differentness to succeed and make a difference, which clearly you have and are, and I'm sure will continue. She has a B.A. in communications from the University of Wisconsin-Madison, which awarded her its Entrepreneurial Achievement Award, and an MSJ in journalism from the Medill School of Journalism at Northwestern, where she is a member of the Council of 100 Mentoring Organization.

Elisa, thank you so much for making the time. I know you are incredibly busy.

Elisa Schmitz: Oh my goodness, thank you so much Anita. What a kind introduction and I am absolutely thrilled to be here. Thanks for having me.

Anita Brick: Okay, so let's start with a definition. And our audience is very interested in entrepreneurship. So I'm going to change the title of your book a little bit to add one more word.

Tell us, what does it mean to “become the fire” as an entrepreneur?

Elisa Schmitz: That is the key question, and that's the best question to start with. I would love to just read you a very succinct definition from the book, if it's okay with you. This will really set the stage.

Anita Brick: Sure. Go for it.

Elisa Schmitz: Okay, so this is from the introduction.

“We all experience chaos, challenges, friction, whatever you want to call it in our lives. However you label the chaos, it happens to all of us in some way or another. Although it shows up in unique and personal ways–racism, ageism, sexism, abuse, illness, disease, disability, divorce, disconnection, inequality, injustice, and more–everyone deals with chaos. I have a code word for the chaos, the challenges and friction. I call it fire. Why fire? Because throughout the years there have been many times when the chaos of my life was so bad, I felt as though I had been thrown into a fire. Flame after flame, the chaos came unrelenting in its desire to singe and sear. But by battling each blaze, I became stronger and wiser and less afraid. By rising up to face that fire and not allowing the flames to engulf me, I took on their strength and engulf them instead. So what does this mean? Become the fire? It means not allowing yourself to be in the fire, getting burned, but instead using the fire's energy to ignite your motivation and drive passion and grit. It's about seeing the fire as fuel to propel your success.”

So that's really the book in a nutshell. I wanted to sort of attack this idea that people who, you know, have so many challenges like, you know, which is, you know, basically most of us, right.

Anita Brick: Right, right. Absolutely.

Elisa Schmitz: Yeah. So many challenges to overcome. And instead of holding us back, how can we turn that on its head and say, how can what I just went through help me, make me stronger, make me wiser, make me braver so that I can use all of that fire to help me get to where I want to go.

Anita Brick: I'm a big believer in that. I've had my own challenges and I know that if you can get to the point where you become the fire, my mentor would say that pure gold comes out of fire. I don't think it's easy for everyone. In fact, there was an MBA student who asked this question and she said: no offense, but you make it sound like confidence is something you gain and keep forever. This is not my experience. I'm in a new field and feel like I'm starting again and that I have diminished confidence and it's showing. How do you advise others in a similar situation to get it back?

It revolves around how do you keep going back and reminding yourself you are the fire, so that you can bring that confidence in? What would you say to the student?

Elisa Schmitz: I love the question, and I do not mean ever to imply that it's easy, because it's certainly not. Developing self-confidence is not something that just happens, like one day when you're a kid or when you're a teenager, or when you're an adult. Still today like there's challenges that will come up and you'll say, oh gosh, this is just, you know, not feeling well or I feel super awkward or I don't know if I can handle this or any of those sort of doubts that creep into your mind.

I will say it's kind of a lifelong thing that you will have to rebuild that self-confidence, you know, on a daily, weekly, monthly basis whenever you need to. The way that I would advise the student, what I would say is start with small goals, small things that you can accomplish and then build your way back.

So you're in a new space, it sounds like, and you need to develop your confidence in this new area. Immerse yourself in this new space and set goals for yourself that are achievable. And as you accomplish them, your self-confidence will grow incrementally until you get back to the point, hopefully. You know, if this is a space that's still feeling good for you, that you can develop an expertise, or at least a solid footing where you feel like you are not walking on uneven ground or quicksand or whatever you want to call it, it just feels sort of shaky. That's what I would say is just start small. Start ticking off those accomplishments one by one. I call it rep by rep, doing it thing by thing. Pretty soon you'll start to feel like, okay, I've got this. And that's the core of what I believe self-confidence is. That feeling of I've got this.

Anita Brick: Now, would you say–this is a related question–in the book you talk about alternatives to faking it ‘til you make it. Another student said, what is the alternative to fake it ‘til you make it when you're out of your element and others expect you to be the expert? What you're saying about confidence is very strong and very powerful. But what if you’re thrown in?

This happens a lot in consulting where they're like day one, oh, we're paying you a bazillion dollars. You are the expert. Is there an alternative or is it more of what you said earlier about immersing yourself and setting those small goals that you can achieve?

Elisa Schmitz: Well, I think it's both. I think this question is very interesting because you know, because you read the book that I'm not such a fan of, Fake It Til You Make It, although there may be a time and place for that. Like if you're taken off guard, for example, you could have just been thrown into something and so you need to project your best self in a situation in which you didn't have time to prepare or, you know, what have you. So there may be a time and a place for a short-lived fake it ‘til you make it moment. I'm not saying it's never useful, but I just don't think it's a strategy for success in general.

So for this student, I guess what I would say is preparation is huge. If you're out of your element, is there time to prepare? Is there time to immerse yourself in this new world that you're in and reading? Obviously, or talking to people who are in this space, you know, so maybe there's a network that they can tap into.

And I also talk in the book about a personal board of directors. It is basically a group of people that you sort of put together, not so formally, but just in your mind, or that you know that you can turn to for advice or feedback, asking questions, things like that. You know, is this a situation in which the student could turn to a personal board of directors or someone in their space that can help them, even just a chat? Sometimes just talking to someone can help, right? And like sort out questions or answers or you just hearing yourself talk about something, you know, can really help you to get up to speed. I guess, is what I would say.

If you don't know something, I would say that too. It's okay to not have all the answers. It's always okay to say, I'm not sure, but I'll get back to you or I'll find out or, you know, let me check something like that. So that you're not put on the spot and feeling like you have to say something that you're not 100% sure of or that you're not authentically knowledgeable about. Because I really feel that when you're being your authentic self, that's when you shine. That's when people truly respond to you and know that you're the real deal. I think that matters.

Anita Brick: I would agree with you, and I think the whole advisory board, the personal board of directors, is a great idea because they can remind you of your value and when you're stronger. And also sometimes when we're doing something, maybe something in a particular field or even entrepreneurial, if we have everyone around us who thinks the same, ultimately we're going to fail because we need people to challenge us.

Elisa Schmitz: Yes, yes, I absolutely love that. You know, you want someone to be able to like, poke holes, if you will, in what you're saying and say, well, wait a minute, what about this? Or did you think about that? Equally valuable is someone telling you you're what you're doing well and what you're not doing well.

Anita Brick: Yeah, of course, of course. And in the right order. Because I think when something–you probably had experience with this–when something is a new idea, it's a baby startup. You need people who are going to support you to sink in the roots enough. And then you got the people who are like, well, what about this? Do you think about this? And they’re giving you that critical feedback. We need cheerleaders and critics. Just at different times.

Elisa Schmitz: Absolutely. I totally agree.

Anita Brick: Okay, so let's shift gears a little bit. An alum said–and maybe you can define what weeds means from your point of view–he said: How do you identify the weeds before they overrun your proverbial garden?

Elisa Schmitz: Yeah, well, I love this concept of weeds in the garden because I'm a big gardener. That's part of a sort of mindfulness activity time, if you will. In life and in business, there are weeds that will crop up and threaten the life of your plants or affect your garden weeds.

I guess I'm referring to, in this case, maybe toxic employees or people that are affecting your life or business in a negative way. So the question is, how do you identify those weeds? That's part of this concept of situational awareness. And I talk about that in the first chapter as it relates to vision. But really what situational awareness means to me is having a really good sense of what is happening around you. And it also is about tapping into your senses so that you understand what your body and mind are telling you.

Really a huge believer in the mind body connection. So if my body is doing things like butterflies in my belly, or, you know, the hair on my arms or standing up, I pay attention fast because that's my intuition or my awareness. Whatever it is you want to call it. It's talking to me and telling me something's not right. So I tap into that, probably on a daily basis, feeling the world around me, what's happening, what's going on in my environment, what's going on in my business. And then using that to inform my next steps.

So how does that relate to the weeds in the garden and people that you should remove? It's everything because in my view, you should be aware of how the people in your orb are impacting you positively and negatively. Do a gut check. What does it feel right? Does it look right? You know the metrics? Are they lining up? You know there's like a dip in revenue. Is there a dip in traffic? You know, I have, as you know, an online business. I watch these metrics really carefully. And then if there's some sort of change for the negative, like why? Why is that happening? Following the data and identifying if there's employees or whatever that are responsible for that kind of thing. Oh, and you know, performance reviews, things like that, that can be tools that help you identify people in your environment that probably shouldn't be there.

You know, in a nutshell, it's both a combination for me of that internal gut and external metrics. And I watch both very, very closely.

Anita Brick: It makes a lot of sense. And there's another alum, so if we expand this topic a little bit more broadly, she said: Just curious, Elisa, how do you decide who to have and keep in your org and who to let go of?

And I know that especially in entrepreneurial endeavors, there are people who maybe are not toxic. Maybe you love their energy, but they're not viable any longer for where an organization is headed. You talk about it in the book about people who were with you in iParenting before it was acquired by Disney, and one you stood up for and said, got to bring her along, and others, not so much.

How do you decide, especially when you have long-standing relationships with people and they're not bad or toxic, they just don't fit anymore and that's a hard decision to make. And it's also a hard decision to execute. How do you do that?

Elisa Schmitz: Oh my gosh. Okay. So yeah, that's one of the tough stories that I share because when iParenting was acquired by Disney, there was redundancy in these roles. Obviously, Disney is a ginormous company with plenty of these roles that were going to be duplicated with the acquisition of our company. So I went to bat for these four people that I believed were vital to the organization. I share the story of one in particular who I was able to save her job and she went on to stay at the company for longer than many people, surviving layoff after layoff. So I felt really good about that.

In other cases, it's tough emotionally to have to look at the numbers and see, okay, well, this person maybe isn't driving revenue or this person isn't really going to be able to add incremental value when their role is duplicated, and so it's time to say goodbye. It's one of the toughest things I've had to do as a business owner, as an entrepreneur. How do I make that decision?

I mean, it's really based on, unfortunately, you know, the data. Again, it's going back to the data and looking at the numbers and saying, well, gosh, just because I love this person's energy and I'm going to miss them so much, kind of the numbers aren't lying. They're telling the story. And so I'm not saying it's easy, it's like really hard.

Anita Brick: No, it's very hard.

Elisa Schmitz: Yeah. And they understood. I just had to sit down with each of them and kind of explain, and that almost makes it harder. I'm welling up and I'm saying this is what's happening. And like, yeah, yeah, I get it. You know, don't worry about it. It's like, oh gosh. So anyway, that was tough.

So that was that particular one. But I think, you know, there's many other situations in which there's not such a dramatic situation like an acquisition of a company, and you're going to have to make those kinds of decisions based on just keeping your organization viable. And again, that's going to be a combination in my mind of looking at the numbers, looking at the data, looking at which employee is over which area, what areas are sort of struggling, and where do you need to make those cuts. And so it's going to be individual case-by-case basis. Again, using those two things that I use constantly, my internal instincts and those external factors like data and reports, things that you're compiling that are tracking your success metrics

Anita Brick: Really, really like the profiles. The stories of the ten women that you profiled, one for each of the chapters. Actually, one is from Booth. But I'm curious, there are a lot of companies that talk about differentness, and they talk about diversity, equity, and inclusion, and it's not so real. If you were going to advise someone to look for signs that differentness will be valued and maybe even celebrated, what are a few things you would be looking for if you were seeking to join an organization, whether it is a big company or an entrepreneurial one?

Elisa Schmitz: I, as you know, I'm just a huge believer this is the way that businesses should be run. I would look for the leadership. What are the leaders saying? What are they projecting? Not just sort of talking the talk, but walking the walk and demonstrating their commitment to this issue. And I really feel like before you take a job in a new company and do your research, do your due diligence on the company, just like you would anything really just before you take that big of a step. And I would look for things like that and what kind of programs.

And you know, social media is good for some things is not great all the time, as we know. But that's one of the things that I really like about it is that you can get a look at what's important to a company by what they're sharing on their website or their social media. So that's what I would do.

Anita Brick: Good. Like, I know that, of course, for I won't say all of us, for many, diversity, equity and inclusion is a high priority. That said, there are other priorities that you shared and there was a question that came in from a Booth student thanking you and then saying, how did you come to grips with, I might not have a unicorn right away when you reclaimed your priorities. And your priorities were across the board in many different areas, some pretty personal that you talk about in the book. How did you come to grips with, I need to take care of myself and my life, and I still want that unicorn?

Elisa Schmitz: You know, I was talking with another entrepreneur the other day about this, and I feel like there's an addiction almost in the entrepreneurial world to this unicorn concept. Very kindly, in the introduction of this interview, you talked about the accelerator/incubator programs that I was very fortunate to be part of. While I love those experiences, that's part of where this whole concept got drilled into my head. Unicorn or bust, you know, we need to go big or go home. That kind of thinking makes it feel like you're failing if you're not a billion-dollar company, nothing could be further from the truth.

And so I talk about redefining success. What is success to you? Not what is success to the market or to investors or VCs or whatever? I mean, it's about what do you want from your life? What is healthy for you in your life? For me, being thrown into the fire, this fire of trying to raise money from VCs or trying to work with business partners who werer sexually harassing me, like all of these things that showed me what the road to building a unicorn company could look like.

And at the time, being a single mom and going through really turbulent health issues, I looked at it as shining a light on which path not to choose. So it was almost like these red warning lights;  don't go this way, choose a different path. And so it was really a mindset shift for me in redefining success, that was taking the path that felt right for me at that time in my personal situation. What I could do, what would my finances allow? What would my life as a mother of three children allow? What would my health allow? All of these things. And so I always kept going, even though, you know, along the way there were people like, gosh, this is really a lot. And maybe you should, you know, stop. And, you know, I didn't want to stop. I just wanted to do it in a way that felt good to me and achievable to me, and that made me feel like I was succeeding.

And so I talk about the fact that I've built, you know, a profitable company that makes a difference in the world. And to me that is success. To other people, maybe they need the billion dollar valuation, or maybe they need to have an exit like I did to Disney. Whatever it is that is success to them, I really feel like it's individual to each person. Everyone has to decide for themselves when is it a failure and when is it a success, and what do you want your life to be like along the way?

Anita Brick: Got it. That makes total sense. Okay, so here's a question that, if you and I could figure out an AI-machine learning, some kind of tool that would be able to predict this, that would definitely be a unicorn. But let me ask a question nonetheless.

An MBA student said, how does one know if a setback or even a failure is an impetus to charge ahead with greater conviction and determination, or a sign to rethink and pivot?

Elisa Schmitz: Yeah, and that's pretty much what I was just describing. That's perfectly in line. I think it depends on the situation. For example, in my situation, so, I described that I went to this event where I had been asked to pitch on a stage, my concept, which was then called 32nd Mom, to this roomful of potential business partners. And so I gave it my best. And then I ended up that evening when I was going to, like, look to establish relationships for the business, I sort of got into this situation with this, you know–I don’t know what to call him–in the book, I call him “the creep.”

Anita Brick: That's fine. He certainly sounded like one in the book.

Elisa Schmitz: Right. So the creep, you know, just chased me all night so that I couldn't really be there for the purpose that I was intended to be. And so I ended up leaving the event. And so I felt discouraged, I felt disappointed, I felt angry, I felt sad. All these emotions that made me feel like a failure in that moment. And I was like, my God, if you know, I can't even lock something down in an environment like that, then how am I going to succeed at building this big business?

I feel like in that situation, a lot of people might look at that just be like, forget it, I'm going to give up, it's too hard, you know, whatever. And instead I felt like this was a sign, if you will, to build my business in a different way, in a way that was healthier for me, in a way that I could kind of do it on my own, I could bootstrap. I didn't have to rely on outside money in order to build the vision that I had.

Certainly it was different than the projections that I had on paper, and I had to retool all of that. But that's okay. I feel like each one is going to be so individual and everyone has to, you know, look at their personal situation. What do your finances allow? You know, can you continue on with more testing and exploration of your concept? Is the market receptive to your idea? Is the data backing you up? Are you getting feedback from your customers or your investors or clients? How about your advisors, your, you know, your personal board of directors, all of those ways that you can sort of take the temperature of the situation and figure out if you should be charging ahead or if you should be rethinking or you should pivot.

I think you really just need to take stock and visit all those touchpoints before you make a decision.

Anita Brick: I would agree, and I'd probably add one other element and that would be do you remember why you're doing it in the first place? And do you still want it? Because you're all about the why?

Elisa Schmitz: Yeah.

Anita Brick: I don't think you would have done anything if you hadn't had a strong sense of what was important to you, what your priorities were. And I think that's why you are a great inspiration.

Elisa Schmitz: Thank you so much.

Anita Brick: Do you have time for one more question?

Elisa Schmitz: Oh, absolutely. Please.

Anita Brick: Okay, great. You share a lot of things in the book. You’ve shared a lot of things today. I think the biggest one is that you can succeed in a highly competitive world where maybe the cards are stacked the other way. If you know why, if you know why it's important to you and that you know who you are.

So that all said, we like to get very practical and actionable. So when you think about it, what are the top three things that you would advise someone to do to become the fire, as an entrepreneur or not, for greater career success and longevity?

Elisa Schmitz: That is a fabulous question, and I feel like there are three things that even though I have ten chapters in the book, which are kind of like my ten lessons, if you will, for how to become the fire, I kind of summarize it in these three.

First is preparation. And so I've talked a lot about that in this interview, because I really feel like that is the key to so much. And what do I mean by that? First of all, it's about doing your research. So as an example, when iParenting, when that idea was just a seed, it was because I was expecting my first child. I was insatiably curious about what was going on in my body, what was going on with the baby. And so doing my research, I found that there wasn't really a pregnancy magazine out there. I did a market research survey. I interviewed 100 pregnant women. I said, would you want this pregnancy magazine? And the answer was resoundingly yes. I also talked to experts in the field as well. So I knew that there was kind of a market and a need for this information. As you prepare, following your data always and making sure that you are on the right track, it's not just about the instinct, it's not just about the data, it’s a combination of both of those things and always kind of balancing the two of them and making sure that you're kind of in tune with your market all the time. So, preparation.

And then the second one is, you touched on a little bit, which is your why, I'll call that passion. You have to do what you love. That's really what I firmly believe. And you have to do the thing that you love most. Because when you do what you love most, you're going to be good at it. You're going to give your best effort to it. You'll set a high bar for your performance. You'll set high standards of excellence for not only yourself, but for those around you. You'll sort of be driven to be the best. And when you are the best at something or among the best, or giving it your best, you're going to succeed because other people will notice. You'll get more opportunities sent your way because you're recognized as a leader in the space. So I feel like passion is key to so, so much.

The third “P”–because there just happened to be another “P”–is perseverance. Perseverance. I talk a lot about grit and resilience in the book, totally an underlying theme throughout all of these chapters and all of these ten women that I interviewed as well.

Anita Brick: And you too.

Elisa Schmitz: (laughs) So, perseverance is absolutely key. When you get knocked down– because you will, everybody does–it's about taking stock and certainly taking a moment or two to stay down if you want and think about it and what happened and how could you do better or you know, what did you learn from the experience? But don't stay down, get back up. Find another way. If indeed you want to continue down this path. To your point, Anita, is it still what you want to do? And if it is and you still, you know, are so passionate that you want to continue, find another way, try a different way because you just learned one way that didn't work. Being friends with failure. Because failure is one of life's greatest teachers. So what did you learn from the experience? How can it serve you and not hold you back? So that's perseverance.

So those are my three top tips: preparation, passion, and perseverance.

Anita Brick: Wonderful. Any other final words? Final, for now, words that you'd like to share with us?

Elisa Schmitz: Following your heart, being in touch with your true self and living in your authenticity. You know as much as that it's kind of a buzzword these days. I feel like, you know when you are being who you truly are, that's where you're going to shine the most. Finding what that is, what lights you up, what makes your heartbeat fast. All of those things are going to instill in you that passion, that sense of perseverance, and ultimately will lead you to success.

And if I can ever help in any other way, please let me know, because this has just been so much fun, Anita. Thank you.

Anita Brick: Oh my gosh. I read the book last weekend and it carried me through all week. Just being really inspired by you and the other ten women who are in the book. But you clearly became the fire. It was a great title for the book, and it's practical and inspirational at the same time, so thank you for doing it.

Elisa Schmitz: Thank you so much. I so appreciate, I love that you got it and it inspired you. And that means the world to me.

Anita Brick: Thank you, thank you. And thank you all for listening. This is Anita Brick with CareerCast at Chicago Booth. Keep advancing.