Engaging and Developing Employees

Anita Brick: Hi, this is Anita Brick. And welcome to CareerCast at the Chicago GSB, to help you advance in your career. Today we're speaking with Jane Wesman, who is CEO and founder of Jane Wesman Public Relations, which she established in 1980. She's a recognized expert in her field and a leader who creates an organizational environment where she engages and develops her employees to build a highly successful group. So—welcome, Jane.

Jane Wesman: It's a pleasure to be here.

Anita Brick: I was reading your book, Dive Right In: The Sharks Won’t Bite, and you talk about—the ability to motivate and develop employees begins with hiring and hiring, specifically the right people. How do you know who to hire? I know you can hire for skills. What do you believe is the best way to hire for fit, which makes it easier to engage and develop down the line?

Jane Wesman: I think the most important thing to remember when hiring people is to have a very clear vision of what the job is, and to clarify what the responsibilities are and what skills you're looking for. Then you're going to try to find somebody who best will fit the bill. Too often, people look at the hiring process as just filling a job as opposed to the truth, which is about developing a relationship.

This is a person who you're going to bring into your organization, who needs to fit in with your culture and the way you do business. So it's important to keep an eye out for that. And to make sure that the person—the personality, the person's likes, dislikes, and skills—are going to fit well within your organization.

Anita Brick: So when you focus on the fit part, are they a good cultural fit, how do you identify that and ask questions around that so you are finding that good fit?

Jane Wesman: A little bit of it is intuitive, but the truth is it's not so much the questions you ask, but how will you listen? It's all about listening, because people will reveal themselves to you. They, of course, are going to be putting their best foot forward during the job interview. But they'll reveal their likes, their dislikes, their work styles. You'll get a good feel for someone.

And the truth is, you should never hire someone just based on one interview. I find that I bring back the prospective employee for several interviews, and if there's a point at which the employee meets with the other people on the team so we can see what the interaction is like, the prospective employee gets to meet the people he or she is going to work with, and the people in my company get to talk with me about whether or not they think this is the best candidate.

And you know what? It makes everybody very comfortable and very happy when we make the final choice that this has been—not really a group decision, but that everybody has participated.

Anita Brick: OK, so now they're on board, and they were a great fit when they started. And all of a sudden productivity, motivation seems to be going downhill.

Jane Wesman: That actually goes back to the hiring process. One of the things you have to remember when you hire people is that you—as the person doing the hiring, you're the only person who really knows what the job is all about and who really understands what skills are necessary. And the people that you interview are all going to tell you that they can do a great job.

So you have to be very careful to weigh what these people are saying. They're essentially in a sales situation. They're trying to sell you on themselves.

Anita Brick: Let's assume you did that. You were right on target. They sold, you bought, but it was backed up with clear evidence that they could perform the job, and something changes.

Jane Wesman: OK. But the truth is, if you did a good job in the hiring process, you'll be able to see the weaknesses. So you need to be prepared for them. Nothing went wrong. It's just the way it is. Why don't we look at it like a relationship? You know, in the beginning, when you first meet a new friend or a new boyfriend, you're … Everything is great and everybody looks wonderful. And then suddenly there seem to be things that aren't quite as great. That's just reality. That's just life. So the truth is, nobody oversold, and you didn't do a bad job.

Anita Brick: How do you manage at that point, though?

Jane Wesman: You need to have a training program. The biggest problem that companies have is that they are not prepared with a training program. They are not prepared—whether it's a very formal training program that lasts several months, or simply a training program in which the manager is very clear about what the job is, what the expected results are, and then helps the new employee get there.

That's what I'm trying to say. You always need to be prepared to help the new employee, and never expect that that employee can just walk in and do the job.

Anita Brick: OK. That's great. Let's say you have that—whether it's a formal program or an informal program—and everything is going along. How do you ensure that the person continues to grow and develop and that they continue to stay engaged and motivated?

Jane Wesman: The best managers recognize that people want to do a good job. So it really begins with having the right attitude towards your employees. It's really important to let your employees know that you appreciate what they do, but beyond that, a good manager has a very clear vision of what the goals of the company are and how the managers, department, or team fits in with those goals.

And a good manager has got to be able to express a clear picture of what the company is all about and how the job fits in. I think that people respond very well when they know why they're doing what they're doing. People also want to know what the future is going to look like, both for them and for the company.

I find that in retaining employees, the biggest mistake that companies make is that they don't communicate with their employees about what the future looks like for that person's individual career.

Anita Brick: And sometimes, if someone is in a position to know that, what are some ways that they can do that if they don't even themselves have a full picture of what the future may hold?

Jane Wesman: I think you may have a problem within the corporate culture.

Anita Brick: A little dysfunction, dysfunctionality there, right?

Jane Wesman: I mean, I think that a manager has to go out of his or her way to understand how his team fits into the company. There's no excuse not to know how all the pieces fit together.

Anita Brick: No, it's a good point. What if you're a manager and part of your responsibility is to motivate people who don't report to you, like in a matrix environment? Would you apply the same things that you've just mentioned, or would you take a slightly different approach?

Jane Wesman: I always apply the same thing in my own work. I have to work with people who work in affiliated companies, so I have no control over them. They don't report to me. But I find the best way to motivate them is to draw a big picture for them of what we're all trying to accomplish, and explain what my team is trying to do and what we hope their team will do.

And in the end, it's showing people how working together will work well for everybody. That this isn't about “you have to do this for me because I'm going to bully you into it,” but that this is something that is going to give you satisfaction. It's going to be good for your career, and all of us are going to be able to succeed together.

Anita Brick: Well, that's a really good point. And how do you balance the developmental needs of employees with the kind of goals and objectives—either of the team, the immediate team, or the organization as a whole?

Jane Wesman: Actually, I think they all should blend together quite well because the truth is, no business can be successful without its employees, and no manager can be successful without his or her team. And no employee can be successful without his or her colleagues. And I find that where you have the biggest breakdown of this situation is when managers are overly egocentric and somehow believe that it's all about them, and that the team is there, the employees are there, to serve them. Or the manager somehow believes that the employee is incompetent or that the employee is lazy, or creates these negative ideas about the employee, instead of recognizing that it's the manager's job to help the employee go step by step through the process to accomplish whatever needs to be accomplished.

So the most successful people in business are the ones who recognize it's all about teamwork, whether it's within your own small company or it's about a global effort within a large company.

Anita Brick: Well, let me give you an example. I was working with someone who has been really an excellent design engineer in a company, and now his goal is really to work not so much on the kind of design and implementation of his products, but he wants to work more strategically to move into general management. But his employer loves him in that job. His manager is not very open to helping him grow and expand.

What would you advise someone who is on the employee side to still have his development needs met?

Jane Wesman: Hopefully this person is working in a situation where he can have a serious heart-to-heart talk with his manager and talk about things such as training somebody to take over the responsibilities that this person will give up. That's very important. The manager wants to know that he or she is not going to be left with an empty hole, perhaps helping to hire somebody who can take over.

The employee has to ask if he can try additional things, do additional work. I see it in my own company. Sometimes people come to me and they want to take additional responsibilities. But as the manager, I don't really think they're going to do well there, but I always let them try. What I find happens is, if they do well, fine, they have new responsibilities.

If they don't do well, we kind of go back to the way it was. I think this is an area in which you get into the things that Marcus Buckingham talks about in terms of playing to your strengths, right? Managers have to look and see if the employee has strengths in these other areas. If the employee is really committed to wanting to do this additional work, it's to the manager's benefit to find a way to make it happen.

Anita Brick: That's a good point. And on Marcus's latest book, Go Put Your Strengths to Work, it's a good read, but it also sounds like one of the things you're saying is that the employee needs to take responsibility. And in this particular case, it sounds like if he wants to operate strategically, he also needs to think about the strategic implications of his moving on without leaving a hole.

Jane Wesman: Absolutely. And a good manager needs to have good communication. Communication is the key to good management. Communication is the key to being a good employee. You know the manager always has more power, is in the power position no matter what. So number one, the manager has to communicate well with the employee. And then the employee will feel free to be able to speak his mind.

So you need an open communication system. And if you're managing well, your employees will be able to come and speak with you from the heart about what they want, but they can't be foolish about it. They have to come in and have a strategic vision of how the change of their role is going to benefit the company.

Anita Brick: Right. And that's a good point. Something that seems to be obviously a growing and growing issue: there are some cross-generational issues that are arising in companies today, and motivating Generation X and Y and the millennials as they come in as well. And with the baby boomers, some still being there, how do you motivate employees who may have different needs and requirements and even different priorities?

Jane Wesman: I have to say I'm a baby boomer. I'm from that generation, but I love this Gen Y generation that's come in. It's fantastic. Here are these young people who are so agile with technology, they can get any bit of information they want. They share information in their communities. They always want to be in the know. They're great employees, because it's everything that I'm talking about.

Communicate with your employees, help your employees get the information that they need. People in their 20s also were told … they grow up being praised and told that they're great at doing everything, and therefore they want a lot of feedback. Well, you know what? Everybody wants a lot of feedback, whether it's a baby boomer or a person in his or her 30s or 20s.

So I think what's happened with this younger generation coming in is that they force the issue on us. They force us to be good managers. They force us to give feedback. They force us to train them properly. They force us to not have secrets. Everything needs to be transparent.

So I think that in the end, you motivate people all in the same way. A good manager is an authentic person who people can trust, who will communicate with his or her employees. Who will share a vision of what the company is all about, a vision of what the team or department needs to do, and then will help the employee get his or her job done. So I think it's the same. I think you manage the same through all the generations now.

The special treats, though, that kids in their 20s want may be different than someone in his or her 40s or 50s, let's say the baseball games, the team events that you need to develop as part of a fun platform for helping employees share experiences outside of the office, may be different with younger people than older people. Older people may need more time off for taking vacation time, or may need more time off to help their spouses or something like that. Do you see what I'm saying?

Anita Brick: Oh, absolutely. Yes.

Jane Wesman: Human nature is the same. Communicate feedback, train. But the kind of fun things that you do as part of motivating your staff may be different for different generations.

Anita Brick: Well, earlier I … actually at the very beginning you talked about recognition. And recognition, obviously, is really a very important part of this. What are some unique ways that you would recommend that you recognize an individual or group for excellent performance, or continued performance or just to, oh, job well done?

Jane Wesman: Well, there are a couple things. Number one, it's really great if you could have a pleasant physical work environment. So I think people feel proud of their work environments if they've got a pleasant place to come to work, that's number one. Number two, if the work environment is set up properly so that people can communicate with each other so that they have privacy in the workplace, but yet also can communicate well with each other, then you've got an ideal physical situation.

So here's something that we do in my office that's set up in such a way that people have separate space, but yet they can share their ideas quite openly and in a kind of a big communal space. We have this funny little stuffed cow. It's a little stuffed … OK. And when you press it, it goes moo moo. OK.

So whenever anybody on my staff does something exceptionally well—and in my company, that might mean, arranges for one of our clients to be interviewed by the Today Show or be interviewed by the New York Times, because that's what we do: we arrange for our clients to get media coverage. So when one of my employees does something terrific like that, all of a sudden you'll hear that moo!

The employee went to the moo cow, presses it, and everybody runs out of his or her office. What happened? What happened? And it's great because not only does the person who did this task get recognition, but then everybody else in the company knows what that person is doing. So the pieces fit together. Because bottom line, it's about how do all these jobs and the different responsibilities that people have fit together to make a powerful whole, a complete project.

So I think in other companies, maybe, it may be a little bell that you ring, or … but some sound thing that acknowledges that something great has happened. Another thing that we do is every two weeks we bring food in and we have a luncheon. Sometimes at that luncheon, we speak about business issues that we have, but other times we discuss nothing about work and only talk about things such as a movie or theater or a book that somebody read.

Because employees need to know that this lunch isn't just about getting more work out of them, but it's also about having good interactions with each other and sharing general ideas. Another thing that I do is one of my main jobs is bringing in new business or selling. And so in my company, every 10th new project that we bring into our company, we all go out as a company to a big dinner.

So again, here's a situation in which everybody in the company gets to understand what the company is all about, what the sales process is all about, which is directly connected to the bottom line; what their jobs are all about. Because we go out and we celebrate as a team several times a year. So you can take that and translate it any way you want to the type of company or the size of the group that you're trying to motivate.

Anita Brick: That's a good point. One final question. I'm sure that there are people who are listening to this podcast who maybe are in a maybe less than motivating environment, or they have someone that just doesn't seem to be very engaged, but they want to transform it. What advice would you give them?

Jane Wesman: I think you have to deal with the reality of the situation, and there sometimes comes a point when a person isn't right for the job, or the company that you work for isn't the right place for you. And I think that if you've tried everything you can to communicate in a realistic way, recognizing what the other person wants …

So if you're the manager recognizing where the employee is coming from, or you're the employee understanding where the manager in the company is coming from, you can only do your best to try to fit in or to get someone to fit in. If it doesn't work out, then you need to move on.

Anita Brick: Any other words of wisdom you'd like to leave us with before we end for today?

Jane Wesman: I think that the most important thing in managing employees is to recognize that it's almost a basic human need to do work that is fulfilling and that makes somebody feel good about himself or herself. And that added to that need is a need to grow and to evolve at your work. And as a manager, if you recognize this in the people around you, you will do a great job managing them because you're looking at the work that they're doing from a positive viewpoint.

Even when they make mistakes, you recognize that it was unintentional and that you need to help them do better.

Anita Brick: Great. Thank you so much.

Jane Wesman: You're welcome.

Anita Brick: Today we were speaking with Jane Wesman, who is CEO and founder of Jane Wesman Public Relations, and there's lots of good information on their site, which is WesmanPR.com. Jane, thanks so much. I know you're very, very busy, so thank you for taking the time to address the needs of our students and alumni at the GSB.

Jane Wesman: You're welcome.

Anita Brick: And this is Anita Brick with CareerCast at the Chicago GSB. Keep advancing.