Any discussion about the costs and benefits of capitalism is incomplete without a conversation about the costs and benefits of consulting, especially global consulting behemoth McKinsey & Company. Do consultants make the world a better place, or is their advice solely geared towards making their clients (and themselves) money in the short term, without regard to any potential societal damages?

On this episode of the Capitalisn’t podcast, hosts Bethany McLean and Luigi Zingales speak with Pulitzer Prize-winning investigative journalist Walt Bogdanich about his book When McKinsey Comes to Town: The Untold Story of McKinsey & Co., the World’s Most Controversial Management Consulting Firm. Bethany and Luigi then discuss the ethical implications of the consulting industry and the questions raised about the accountability of powerful societal institutions, including the role of business education.

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